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dna
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Example:
A cold-blooded killer murders an entire family (or some other horrible crime). While sitting on death row, he gets Jesus and truely regrets what he has done (for dev/null & DEVLAR - just truely regrets what he has done). If you let him go now, he will be an selfless, positive addition to humanity.
Do you let him go? Or must vengence be had regardless? Note that he has been absolved by repentence and will journey to Heaven (or where ever you suppose all true good people go.)
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« Last Edit: 2004-04-02, 20:37 by dna »
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games keeper
Elite
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who cares , in 10 years hes back on the streets anyway .
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dna
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who cares , in 10 years hes back on the streets anyway . I guess you don't understand the purpose of death row then... |
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Tekhead
Elite
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redeeming your soul in the eyes of God and in the eyes of other men are two VERY different things. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to someone - if heaven exists, execution would just be a shortcut to freedom for the person in question.
My solution, if I had to choose one, would for him to pay back the people who he stole life from, in one manner or another. How the criminal would do so, I don't know.
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dev/null
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for dev/null - just truely regrets what he has done Wha?!  |
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dna
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for dev/null - just truely regrets what he has done Wha?! Lol, instead of finding God. |
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Devlar
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There is no God
Unless humanity can forgive him he dies, no amount of spiritual nonsense can change that
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Phoenix
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There are two concerns here - laws of God, and laws of men. This man broke both by committing murder. He may be redeemed in the eyes of God, but he still must pay an earthly price for his crime. Christ paid the price for his soul for breaking God's laws 2,000 years ago, but the laws of men are separate from those of God, even if they sometimes overlap. As for honoring the laws of men, Jesus, when asked if men should pay taxes, said "Whose face is on the coin?" The men replied "Caeser's," to which he said "Then render unto Caeser what is Caeser's, and render unto God what is God's." Every Christian and every Jew are still bound to obey earthly laws except for when they interfere with the obeying of the laws of God. For an example of this, read the book of Daniel.
Depending on your denomination, death isn't always a straight ticket to heaven either. Catholics believe in purgatory, that is, a place between heaven and earth for the purging of the spirit prior to entry into heaven. Assuming such a place does exist this man could be climbing that mountain for the equivalent of 10,000 years before the stains are washed from his soul. Personally I feel that sins are cleansed at time of death, based on what I know of scripture, but that is for God to decide.
A truly penetant man understands the gravity of what he's done and accepts that his punishment is just as well, provided it fits the crime. A life sentence or execution is just for murder, and punishment in this age is much less severe than it was in days of old. If anyone thinks otherwise then compare lethal injection with crucifixion or being drawn and quartered, entrailed, or any other of the old ways of dealing with things. Beheadings were the most humane form of execution that existed back then, and even those weren't always done right on the first swing.
As for repaying the family, you cannot bring the dead back to life and replace the loss to the family that he wounded, so there is no way to ever repay them for his crime. Not all the money in the world can replace a son, daughter, husband, wife, brother, sister, father, or mother. What he can do is to help keep other souls like his from a much worse end, and make useful the time he has left. This man, having found redemption while in prison, can still be a selfless and positive addition to humanity by ministering to those souls who are still lost and on their way to execution. Any Christian who truly believes will tell you that they wish to see nobody lost, and nobody ever go to that awful place for which there is no comfort, but only sorrow. It is better to be with strangers in heaven than to with friends in hell. You have no friends when you're in hell. By helping to save even one person from that horrid place then his life was worth living, whatever end it meets.
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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dna
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Unless humanity can forgive him he dies, This is the question. If he has truely repented, and not just giving lip service... In your view, is Jail meant as punishment or rehabilitation? If he has rehabilitated himself, do you let him go? If you are the person in charge, do you let him go? |
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Devlar
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This isn't a question about God
If the people who have suffered the crime can forgive him then let him go, otherwise, he dies
Its not a decision for a judge or an arbitrator to make, if he has been found guilty by his peers and the victims ask for justice all other considerations such as religious conversions are mute points
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dna
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This isn't a question about God
If the people who have suffered the crime can forgive him then let him go, otherwise, he dies
Its not a decision for a judge or an arbitrator to make, if he has been found guilty by his peers and the victims ask for justice all other considerations such as religious conversions are mute points Please note I qualified the God quotient for this thread so it may or may not be about God. If the victims were murdered, they are unable to forgive. (EDIT - because they're dead, not through any personal convictions keeping them from forgiveness. I suppose the ghosts of the victims might not forgive though...END EDIT) In this legal system, yes, it is up to the system, et al, to decide if people go free. In this question, you are the Governor, with the ability to set this man free from death row. You are the person with the power. In his rehabilitation, has he redeemed himself? Or is there no room for redemption in your eyes? |
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« Last Edit: 2004-04-02, 21:01 by dna »
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Devlar
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Then he dies, and rightly so
The only redemption in this world is the redemption to humanity, if he does not, then he dies
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« Last Edit: 2004-04-02, 20:59 by Devlar »
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Devlar
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I'd like to point out, that even though I agree he has to die, I in no way shape or form agree with capital punishment. I simply am using the example the way it was given
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SkyNet
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Redemption is meaningless. You will be terminated, regardless of your status in this "afterlife".
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Devlar
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Now we have someone who thinks they are a robot... they just keep coming out of the woodwork don't they...
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Apocrypha
Ogre
Posts: 46
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No one but the convict himself can ever know if he is or isn't feeding you a line of bullsh*t about being "truly sorry" anyway, to trust his word would make anyone a fool. I say kill him.
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dev/null
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The terms of religion in prison systems are even more biased than they are in the public light of this country anyway. Satanism, among many other creeds, are outright banned and considered immoral. Right? Hardly. Satanism has some insight to offer, despite being ultimately flawed, just the same as all religions. The BS reasons that are given for such are pathetic to say the least. With God?s questionable existence now out of the way though, I guess I can strike up an easier answer. In my mind, a punishment is only needed until one realizes what the fault was and attempts to change that. So, I would say that if the man (or woman) had truly given up their past ways and was going to strive for better in the future, that release would be fine. However, in this dystopian society, such is not appropriate. One would never truly be able to tell whether or not redemption had been achieved. Facades are put up all of the time to escape torture. Even if there was a sure way to tell, the victim?s friends and family would surely be outraged, unless they too understood this process. People demand revenge, er, justice, excuse me. Personally, I find death to be a pitiful excuse for both. Revenge, in my mind, should be much more methodical, and punishment should be just that; punishment. Death is an easy way out of sticky situations regardless, especially for those of us who find the concept of Heaven and Hell laughable. Prison systems in themselves are a strain on society as a whole though. If people were really worried about reducing ?crime?, they wouldn?t beg for humane treatment of those they perceive as criminals, they would make the said punishment so unspeakable that no one would ever consider breaking the law. As it is now, such systems only pull down our ?civilization?, and serve to finically rape those who dwell within it, just as the criminals themselves do. The Romans, being the blood thirsty bastards they were, had the right idea: Gladiatorial bouts. Turn crime and punishment into a profitable form of entertainment. That seems as though it would be a very plausible situation, since if one were to take the law into their own hands, they?d find themselves being pointed at by the same finger as the original sinner. You guys wouldn't have to worry about such morality if anarchy was in effect, you know. Do as you want would be the whole of the law  |
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Woodsman
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satanism has not been outright banned. The US navy has even peformed satanic funeral services.
If a man believes hes right with god then well and good for him.That dosent mean the state has to forgive him.
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« Last Edit: 2004-04-03, 07:12 by Woodsman »
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Phoenix
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Well, everything has something to offer, now doesn't it? Just be careful before sipping the wine. You never know if it's poisoned.
I think incarceration could be handled much better. Criminals are given more comfort than the poor who are trying to get out of poverty honestly. When you have hot meals and cable TV what use is there to see it as a punishment? Why should murderers, rapists, and thieves be treated better by the system than those they prey upon? I'd like to see them go back to the old stone dungeon cells where you were left entirely alone to contemplate your life, and your meals were slid under the door. That way two problems are solved. No inmates will hassle any others, and prison becomes unpleasant again. No workouts, no TV, no creature comforts, and no company except your own inner demons. If they want something to do they can request a bible, or koran, or any very basic material of their particular faith, but nothing else. No news, no magazines, no books, no music - nothing. Nobody would want to go back there.
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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