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Author Topic: Possible ladder ?  (Read 9823 times)
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jess
 
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« on: 2004-05-18, 01:28 »

If Gen could be a ladder for match play on OGL would you guys/girls be interested in playing? If so I need to know the type (ie 1v1, 3v3 etc). The general process is that i need support from 10 teams (in a 1v1 ladder it would be 10 players). If we come within one or two teams, I will send a set of rules to my League Official for consideration. This could potentially bring outsiders to the game from other Q3 mods or other games completelty. What are your thoughts?

If you don't know what OGL is go to www.worldogl.com
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #1 on: 2004-05-18, 01:59 »

99e will give Generations a more complete feel with many, many bug fixes and balance tweaks in addition to the overall facelift. I'd wait until 99e comes out before seriously advertising this mod, since at its current state the gameplay is flawed in a number of areas (massive slippy RL damage, Q3BFG, turncloak teamcolor bug to name a few).
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jess
 
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« Reply #2 on: 2004-05-18, 02:50 »

That's not what I'm worried about right now. Right now I just want to know if there is support behind the idea so I can prepare the rules and such for the LO.
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #3 on: 2004-05-18, 04:10 »

most of WHS seems to have clearly stated that they are not competitive... I don't know if you'll get much from here. Outside here perhaps, but I have no idea about the local crew.
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ConfusedUs
 

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« Reply #4 on: 2004-05-18, 04:50 »

If you want to start a ladder, go for it.

However...

The biggest problem is that Gen is most definately NOT designed for 1on1. The classes are balanced around medium-sized FFA matches.

Earth, for example, is deadly in a FFA, but will have a very hard time competing in a 1on1 environment due to his slow speed. Slipgate, in particular, slaughters Earth 1on1.

However, I can see a lot of potential for 2on2 up to 4on4 matches. A mixed group will have all the bases covered. The classes are very good at shoring up each other's weaknesses. A Strogg/Slipgate combo is nasty, as you can dominate close, mid, and long ranges. Earth/Doom is a good combo as well.

I won't be playing in any sort of league simply because I don't have the time, although I think it's a damn good idea. I'd love to see a Gen ladder, on one condition: if it's not run by the OGL

The OGL is horribly mis-managed. I've played on several ladders for CTF and Rocket Arena over the years (q2 CTF, RA2, and RA3), and every OGL ladder I've been on has been complete and utter shit, while the various others were a pleasure to play on.

Unless you can prove to me that the OGL is no longer arbitrary in its decisions, can actually enforce its own rules, and promotes FUN instead of incessant bitching about its administration, I will not post news about it on the WireHead site.

You can create the ladder if you wish, but publicizing it will be up to you if it falls under the OGL.
« Last Edit: 2004-05-18, 04:56 by ConfusedUs » Logged
jess
 
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« Reply #5 on: 2004-05-18, 05:22 »

I'm only admin for OGL so if you want it else where I can't help you. If a Gen ladder is created, I would be heading it up with Jaster as the League Official. It's up to you; was just an idea   Slipgate - Sad
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ConfusedUs
 

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« Reply #6 on: 2004-05-18, 05:23 »

Like I said, you can do it if you want, but unless the OGL has vastly improved in the six months since my last experience with them, I won't give it my full support.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #7 on: 2004-05-18, 06:18 »

I don't have a problem with a ladder, as I stated in the chat.  I don't entirely agree with Con that 1 vs 1 will be so one-sided.  There are also abilities in Gen to limit classes to single-class matches, like Slipgate only, Strogg only, Doom only, etc.  Cross-class battles can go many ways, but single-class adds a new twist to it as well.

As far as participation, as I've said before, I do not play competitively.  I also do not have the time.  I'm very heavy into the development side, so I grab a game here and there when I can and I go back to coding and modeling, etc.  I would encourage any Gen players to participate who wish to, so long as things are kept fair and kept fun.

Regarding formatting, 1 vs 1 is feasible with the new Tournement mode for .99e upcoming (broken with crash problems in .99d).  Team-play I'd say 2 vs 2 would be the best route since we don't have a huge player base at the moment to support lots of large teams.  It's easier to organize a 2 vs 2 than a 3 vs 3 or larger.

Regarding "support", what kind of support is actually needed from us?  Do we just need to basically rubber-stamp and say "ok, go for it", or does the team have to take a more participatory role?  If only a nod is needed it has my nod, though I do hold some reservations in regards to what ConfusedUs stated.  I know he played in the OGL ladders for RA2.  Beyond that, I can't speak for others, but my time is already maxed out as it is, and is about to be stretched a lot thinner in the next months.  I doubt I will be able to be of any assistance beyond the continued work on the mod itself.
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« Reply #8 on: 2004-05-18, 07:38 »

Aye. 2v2 would be great. I'm not saying I'd play in the ladder myself, b/c, I, like most here, don't like to play competitively. However, I would like to see it done for the fact that it might get more ppl interested in the mod, etc. These guys have worked way too damn hard for it not to have a huge following behind it.

I agree w/ everything con and pho said pretty much. Except for the OGL ladders and such, as I haven't had any experience w/ them myself.

And pho, I don't think she'd need any help from the mod crew at all. I think she's just asking what you guys would think about it if she were to run one. So I'm pretty sure most of it she would be doing herself as she'd be overseeing the ladder and such. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Genialus
 

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« Reply #9 on: 2004-05-18, 12:05 »

Quote from: Phoenix
There are also abilities in Gen to limit classes to single-class matches, like Slipgate only, Strogg only, Doom only, etc.
How about at parallel forced random?
I mean randomize the class but force both players to end up as the same class.
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Tabun
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« Reply #10 on: 2004-05-18, 12:13 »

Doesn't make sense to me. unless it's a simple loop earth - doom - slipgate - strogg - arena - and back to earth again, it would be coding hell, too.

Mind you, an option that forces a random class with the exception of the current, so that one never gets the same class twice in a row, would be a nice addition to Gen in general, and would kind of make the random class more useable for this kind of thing aswell.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #11 on: 2004-05-18, 18:56 »

Forced random would suck, since there are maps where certain classes dominate and others are fragbait. If someone got lucky and got the right class for the map and their opponent didn't, the other player would be (forcefully) screwed for a good number of frags.
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ReBoOt
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« Reply #12 on: 2004-05-18, 20:02 »

As my time is very limited these days that's a no for me, but it could be a good way to attract new players, who do like to compete with each other.
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Genialus
 

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« Reply #13 on: 2004-05-18, 22:16 »

Quote from: Tekhead
Forced random would suck, since there are maps where certain classes dominate and others are fragbait. If someone got lucky and got the right class for the map and their opponent didn't, the other player would be (forcefully) screwed for a good number of frags.
That's why i wanted people to end up as the same class but a random one.

But if it's coding hell then leave it be, it definitely not that good an idea.
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jess
 
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« Reply #14 on: 2004-05-18, 22:28 »

Quote from: Phoenix
Regarding "support", what kind of support is actually needed from us?
I need to be sure that if the ladder is created that players will actually play on it. So what i really need is player support, and yes teh ladder would be supporting the .99e.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #15 on: 2004-05-18, 22:43 »

Genialus:  That would not work for one simple reason.  Classes cannot be changed in mid-play, only at death or as a spectator state.  Once one player frags another, the classes are no longer the same since one player is dead and the other is still alive.  As long as one player frags another more than the other player frags them in return, your classes will remain out of sync for the majority of the match.  There is no point to that.

For 1 vs 1 I'm in favor of the following options for a ladder:

1)  Full normal mode.  This is Generations, so let people use what they want.  This includes switching classes during matches.  Part of Generations' strategy is learning how to be good with ALL the classes, so the adaptable player is more likely to succeed than, say, the "Doom only" player, etc.  That's part of the fun.

2)  Single class modes.  This would be "Earth vs Earth", "Doom vs Doom", etc.  If we gather enough players for this I'm sure single-class ladders could be done.  Genflags control this, so it's easy to do.

For 2 vs 2 teamplay I'm in favor of the following options for a ladder (99e stuff)

1)  Full normal mode.  Anyone can be what they want, as usual.

I do not favor class-based teams for a ladder for the reasons Tekhead stated.  A map may favor one class a lot more than another, and it will end up in a situation where it's 2x worse for the unfavored team.  An example would be q1em7-ish (House of Cthon) where anyone with a long-range gun like a rail will wipe the floor with anyone who does not.  Doom and Slipgate get creamed on that map by Strogg Troopers, Earth Soldiers, and Arena Gladiators when said classes get ahold of the railgun since there's almost nowhere to hide.  Class-based teams are great for "fun" grudge matches, etc, but not for a ladder.

Jess:  We can start a poll for the players to see how much participation we can have if you like.
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Genialus
 

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« Reply #16 on: 2004-05-18, 23:28 »

I'm sorry I forgot to say that I was thinking something like cpma but in generations
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #17 on: 2004-05-19, 00:51 »

1v1 would kick ass! However... we still need more maps and 99e to come out with its solid gameplay tweaks =]
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jess
 
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« Reply #18 on: 2004-05-19, 15:16 »

Quote from: Phoenix
Jess:  We can start a poll for the players to see how much participation we can have if you like.

 
That works for me Pho.
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