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Author Topic: Cowardly Christians (A trend that bothers me...)  (Read 8409 times)
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Phoenix
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« on: 2004-07-20, 03:37 »

Rant time.

I am getting more than a bit fed up with a large element of Christianity that seems to take the "see no evil, hear no evil" bit literally.  When did Christians become so lax and complacent?  We have people more worried about a video game looking scary because it has evil things that you have to fight (Doom 3, etc) than worrying about REAL evil in the world.  Where has the courage and sense gone?  It seems to me that there are an awful lot of Christians who cannot or will not deal with the subject of fighting demonic forces.  Jesus didn't go run and hide when he was confronted with demons.  He cast them out, and gave that power to his disciples.  

I think the problem is people don't learn how to deal with real demons because nobody is preaching it.  Conversely, those who do preach about hellfire and damnation usually do it to scare their congregation into giving more money and coming back once a week to ensure a steady cashflow.  Then there are those who want to preach that everything and everything is evil because of (insert reason of the week here).  I'm calling BS on all of this here and now.  I'm tired of it, and I think it's time someone sets the record straight on demons and how they work, not only for the benefit of anyone who's curious, but to also show what a lot of "goody-little-two-shoes" so-called Christians need to wake up and deal with.  For those who don't believe in demons all of this is irrelevant, except for the fact that ignorance of a danger does not undo it.  Believe, or don't.  That is your free choice after all.

As a word of warning, this IS preachy and I make no bones about telling people what to do here and how to do it.  This is my area of expertise.  Also, discussion as to Christianity's validity or lack thereof will NOT be tolerated here.  Start your own thread if you want to go bible-bashing.  If you make one of the usual snide remarks I'll delete your entire post.  If you're offended by this subject then don't read this thread, simple as that.  Now, on to business...

The first step to dealing with evil is to not fear it.  Those who fear something as benign as a video game because it portrays evil as actually being dark and scary need to do us all a favor and go wander the desert for 40 years.  You don't learn how to fight demons by sitting around watching "VeggieTales" and listening to feel-good worship songs on the radio.  You don't learn how to fight demons by pretending that talking about them or looking at scary things is in itself evil.  If someone draws an upside-down cross should I fear that?  If someone draws a pentagram, should I fear that?  Why?  It's nothing more than an image, how does it hurt me?  It might be argued that symbolism, through intent and applied meaning, can draw evil spirits.  I will not dispute that, as I do agree to an extent.  In order for this to be a problem you first have to fear evil spirits, and second, willingly allow them in.

A symbol is nothing without meaning.  A cross, prior to the the crucifixion of Christ, was nothing but an executioners tool to anyone around in the day.  The meaning is assigned by the person.  Otherwise, it's just a hunk of wood.  The inverted pentagram had no symbolic link to Satanism prior to LeVay's founding of the Church of Satan in 1966.  Prior to that it was a pagan symbol, and the standard pentagram was commonly used to ward against evil spirits.  These images only have power over a person if they CHOOSE to fear them.  If you do not fear them, they hold no more power over you than a cross does to a non-Christian who has never seen one before.  This does not take into account blessings or curses on physical objects, and any object, irrespective of symbolism, can be blessed or cursed but that's another matter entirely.

As for monsters, what are they in a game?  Just a computer generated thing.  When you get down to it the monster is just numbers.  It's a piece of program code that does something inside the computer.  THAT'S IT.  No demons are going to jump out of the computer and possess you.  If they're scary it's because of human psychology, which is a subset, albeit a rather complex subset, of animal psychology.  Creatures tend to fear things bigger and stronger than they are, or anything that is significantly dangerous to them.  In an immersive environment like a first-person shooter game this comes into play heavily.  Sudden movements and certain noises also tend to invoke fear or surprise.  "Stalking" noises combined with darkness add to this level of discomfort.  Take a game setting where you know ahead of time that the environment is threatening and the responses are quite predictable.  Fear exists for a reason:  It keeps living things alive.  All living things have a self-preservation instinct, and clever game authors play upon this.

This is exactly the issue at hand - dealing with fear.  Why do people see scary movies?  Why do people go to haunted houses?  They WANT to be scared, but more than that, they want to be scared and come THROUGH the situation unharmed.  This gives someone a feeling of power over the situation, as well as a bit of adrenaline rush.  Some people, like thrill-seekers, like this.  That's why humans continuously engage in dangerous activities, like skydiving, base-jumping, etc.  Conquering fear has, since ancient times, been a test of nerves.  Other living creatures sometimes engage in risky behavior.  There is a reason for this.  In testing one's limits, through competition or flirting with danger, a creature learns how far it can go and where the line is so that if a dangerous situation arises it can better cope with it than if it had not subjected itself to the controlled danger situation beforehand.  How many times do you hear stories of people put in a traumatic situation say "I froze"?  This is why soldiers and police officers train as hard as they do.  They learn to control the fear and react according to their training, instead of freezing up when faced with danger.  It's really no different for animals.

As for demons, the original subject here, demons are not a danger unless you allow them to be.  Allowing includes ignorance of their presence, and that is the largest mechanism employed so far.  The biggest factor is lack of awareness of their existance and how they work.  Demons are fallen angels, that is, angels who rebelled against God and were kicked out of heaven.  They follow a command structure, the same as angels do.  The stronger and more intelligent demons control the weaker and less powerful demons.  Their powers are NOT infinite, they are NOT all-knowing, nor can they be everywhere at once.  They are not corporeal as a rule, but if given enough power can become corporeal and inflict serious harm.  I know this as fact as I've seen them take physical form myself, and so have others that I know.  The Catholic Church, throughout history, has records of incidents involving creatures who had killed animals and humans, and that such things as swords and bullets had no effect on, but holy water, rosaries, and other blessed items were able to destroy or make them flee and not return.  One such incident involved a large black "dog" that charged a priest who was out for a walk as if to kill him.  Sensing the danger, and noticing the beast was too large and seemed to grow unnaturally larger as it charged him he threw his rosary at it.  It struck the dog, and it vanished.  Hallucination, or something more?  Who can say, but such incidents are rare.  Most demons are cowardly if confronted properly and will flee eventually after confrontation.

How do you know if there's a demon around?  Demons are spirits, so they can almost never be seen unless they are very powerful and the person in question is sensitive to their presence and alert to what to look for.  As a rule, lesser demons are everywhere, all the time, whispering nasty little thoughts at people, trying to get them to do wrong.  Usually these cannot be felt, and they're not particularly powerful entities.  Ignoring those urges and praying for strength against them is usually enough to take care of this, unless you get someone really nasty trying to tempt you into doing something seriously wrong.  So... how do you tell if there's a more powerful one around then if you cannot see them?  Do you ever get that feeling of utter dread that you cannot explain?  Ever go outside at night and just feel like the air is "bad", or that your spine is crawling, even though the area is quite familiar and nobody is in sight and there's no logical reason to be afraid?  Ever know that "something bad" is "out that direction" just staring at you, but you don't know what, nor why it's "that direction" specifically, but you just KNOW?  This oppressiveness to the night (or day, but at night it tends to be more prevalent) can sometimes just be apprehension, but when it gets to an overpowering level there's a good chance that evil is afoot, and must be dealt with.

So how does one confront a demon?  Prayer is the most effective tool.  Pray to God for protection from the evil, pray for Him to send angels to protect you and do battle with the demons who are harassing you, and pray for the power to defeat them.  Then, in Jesus name, you command the demon to leave.  If this sounds like an exorcism then you're on the right track, although exorcism is different.  This is what we call a "deliverance".  Exorcism is used when there's a possession of a person involved, deliverance is used when an area has a strong demonic presence.  Anyone can perform a deliverance, exorcisms should be left to exorcists as a possessed person is extremely dangerous, and so are exorcisms to all involved.  Invoking the name of the Lord during a deliverance prayer is a powerful tool because it is not any power you have that weakens the demon, but the power of God acting through you.  Invoking the name of St. Michael or Mary is also extremely potent in ridding them of a given area.  Faith is a key in this as well.  If you don't have faith that this will work I can assure you straight up IT WILL NOT.  The more faith you have, and the more sincere your request, the more power it carries behind it.  Keep praying, keep telling the demon to depart, and don't stop until the feeling of dread is gone.  Wearing a sacred symbol, like a rosary or a bible is also a good thing to do because they are not just symbols to us, but symbols (to the demon) of a believer's power over that demon.  If you think of the demon as a soldier in an army, how would a soldier feel if he went into an enemy camp and saw the heads of a bunch of his buddies stuck up on poles?  You get the idea.  It's also a good idea to tell the demon where to go when it DOES depart.  My favorite place is to send them to the Abyss.  This is the bottomless pit described in Revelation where Satan will be bound and cast into for 1,000 years by St. Michael.  They don't tend to get back out if that's where they're sent off to.

One point to keep in mind in all of this is sometimes it's not always easy to tell if a fear of a given area is due to a corporeal danger, or a demonic entity.  Phoenix says - trust your instincts.  If you feel you should not go into an area then DON'T.  Pray for protection and guidance, and avoid the area.  This is not cowardice, it's just plain sense.  Pray for angels to be sent down and deal with the threat.  Whether corporeal or demonic, by doing so you've just increased your chances of escaping unharmed either way since angels can and will hinder people with evil intent if they're available to do so.  It doesn't always stop someone from doing something bad, but it does shift the odds better in your favor regardless.

The main point of dealing with demons is to NOT let fear control you, but instead stand firm and kick it right back into their faces.  Christians have a DUTY to do this, according to scripture, and were given power over demons.  It is a waste not to exercise this power.  There is no reason to fear evil, and those who do fear evil are controlled by it because by fearing something you give it power over you.  If you're a Christian, and you're afraid of demons then shame on you - you're handing power to Satan that he should not have!  Learn to fight them and grow a little backbone.  If your minister is not preaching about how to deal with demonic forces AS IT IS TOLD IN SCRIPTURE then you need to find a new minister.  (It is important to keep scripture in the picture because of all the false teachings out there about what is or is not demonic, and how the devil works, etc.  Always use scripture as your litmus test for preaching.)  This trend of running and hiding and denouncing things that are otherwise harmless while ignoring the real dangers in the world has got to stop.  All that matters at the end of all things is whether or not a soul makes it to heaven, and the more power Satan has, the more souls he can keep from getting there.  I'm calling on all believers who would read this to follow my example, and fight demonic forces whenever and wherever encountered.
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« Reply #1 on: 2004-07-20, 12:04 »

every religion has fanatics pho .
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« Reply #2 on: 2004-07-20, 17:17 »

for once, gameskeeper's right. Not much we can do about it. Slipgate - Sad
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Phoenix
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« Reply #3 on: 2004-07-20, 21:52 »

Sure there is, we can pray for some sense to be knocked into these people.  I have nothing against people being fanatical about God, or Jesus, or about wanting to do good.  I'm that way myself.  I'm just peeved that so many people are off tilting at windmills instead of in the trenches where the battle is raging.
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« Reply #4 on: 2004-07-20, 22:15 »

dont say battle to loud , we are dealing here with fanatics .
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Phoenix
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« Reply #5 on: 2004-07-21, 06:12 »

It's not just the fanatics that I'm talking about here.  I'm also railing at "Once-A-Week" Christians.  You know the type, they go to church every Sunday and then God is put back in the closet for 6 days again.  Add to that the "social believers" who go to church to gossip and nose into other people's affairs, and have their mind everywhere except in the bible.  I also blame the clergy for not handling these tough subjects that are so important.  If we are indeed living in the last days, as all the prophecies in the bible appear to indicate, then it is vital for them to be vigilant now more than at any other time in history, especially since Christianity is being forced into a smaller and smaller box everywhere around the world.
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« Reply #6 on: 2004-07-21, 08:38 »

While I do not practice Christianity, I agree with most of what you said Phoenix.  Fear is a horrible thing that gnaws away at one's sanity.  The only reason why I am still sane and possibly still "alive" today is because I actively try to confront my fears now.

I "gave birth" to something wicked when I was a child.  I couldn't handle what life was throwing at me, and I gave up.  While this resignation was largely beneficial to my physical survival at the time, a part of me died and a new part took its place.  One who would grow to only know suffering.  This suffering led him to hate the person responsible for his creation, me.  That hatred continues to grow today, for which I can not blame him, but I also can not allow it.  If ever he gained full control, that would be the end of me and the reign of him.  I still respect him to a degree though.  If it weren't for him, I would have eventually succeeded in overthrowing my instinct to survive.  The cons far outweigh the pros, but for this sole reason, I bear part of his namesake, "Kain."
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« Reply #7 on: 2004-07-21, 10:55 »

does the wicked thing have a name ?
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« Reply #8 on: 2004-07-21, 19:34 »

Quote from: Kain-Xavier
I "gave birth" to something wicked when I was a child.  I couldn't handle what life was throwing at me, and I gave up.  While this resignation was largely beneficial to my physical survival at the time, a part of me died and a new part took its place.  One who would grow to only know suffering.  This suffering led him to hate the person responsible for his creation, me.  That hatred continues to grow today, for which I can not blame him, but I also can not allow it.  If ever he gained full control, that would be the end of me and the reign of him.  I still respect him to a degree though.  If it weren't for him, I would have eventually succeeded in overthrowing my instinct to survive.  The cons far outweigh the pros, but for this sole reason, I bear part of his namesake, "Kain."
WTF?

Meh I used to be a beliver, but since phoenix requested it I'll just keep my mouth shut for the most part, but I agree about these fanatics. They are so busy creating evil where none exists that any real cause they should be fighting for goes un-noticed.  I mean where were all the christians when the catholic church had pedofiles coming out of the wood work? Did anybody investigate it? No, not really the church handled everything and stuck them all in the witness protection program and nobody batted an eye. Things like that tend to piss me off.  
I guess its ok that father McKensy got "personal" with little Billy, but god forbid Billy plays a violent video game, that would be worng! And my goodness now Billy wants to listen to rock music? Somthing heavier then Creed?! You must be a satan worshiper!

I mean we wouldn't want to take the time to learn or understand new things. What we say is right and if you don't belive us then you are all ignorant fools!  Slipgate - Confused

Sorry for all the sarcasim.
But still...
Does anybody else see the problem with that picture?

I hate to generalize but any religion for the most part just annoys me.
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Tabun
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« Reply #9 on: 2004-07-21, 20:52 »

I'm starting a new belief system, btw. I think I'll call it Common-Senseism, and it has no priests, no books, no dresscode, no abominations and no commandments, but one: 'think, you bastard!'. It helps to say the latter out loud, twice a day. So far it's been treating me right :]
« Last Edit: 2004-07-21, 20:53 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #10 on: 2004-07-22, 00:52 »

krijgen we hosties ?  Thumbs up!
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Phoenix
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« Reply #11 on: 2004-07-22, 02:53 »

Quote from: ..::WHAT!?
where were all the christians when the catholic church had pedofiles coming out of the wood work? Did anybody investigate it? No, not really the church handled everything and stuck them all in the witness protection program and nobody batted an eye. Things like that tend to piss me off.

Does anybody else see the problem with that picture?
I certainly do.  It's sickening.  It's one thing for a pedophile to join the clergy to hide behind the cloth, it's another thing for the rest of the clergy to ignore it or sweep it under the rug, hoping it will just "go away".  This is the gravest kind of sin.  Here's what Jesus said about harming children:

Luke 17:2 "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

There will be a price to pay for these priests, and those who've covered up for them.  This kind of corruption is exactly why the rest of us get a bad name, but more importantly, it is the deadly poison that kills the faith of those who are wavering.  I say any priest found to have molested a child, and any church leader who covers up for them, should be tried under the law the same as any common man.  Jesus said to render unto Caeser what is Caeser's.  Unless the law of the land be to prevent a believer from worshipping God, then the Christian believer is not above such laws, nor should the clergy be either.
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« Reply #12 on: 2004-07-22, 10:27 »

Quote from: Phoenix
... fight demonic forces whenever and wherever encountered.
Riiight, so the next time I'm strolling through K-Mart and a firey, soul-sucking demon pops out from it's cleaver guise in the Martha Stewart collection, I'll just whip out my Sword of Light +1 and smite it down, then and there.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #13 on: 2004-07-22, 19:12 »

Been watching a bit of Army of Darkness, eh?  Slipgate - Grin

Quote
"Lady I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave the store."
"Who the hell are you?"
"Name's Ash.  Housewares."
"I'll swallow your soul!"
"Come get some."

If only it were that easy.
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« Reply #14 on: 2004-07-29, 19:46 »

religious denominations are too confusing for mecha. I think each one is as full of shit as the next, but there's some right in it somewhere.

the reason I call it full of shit though is rather complex. I think that some people are ridiculous in that they can be all about Dubya and his war on terrorism while listening to country music ... yet these are the same people that claim Doom is evil. where's my proof of this? I have none, just take a look around, spork you. okay, so the original Doom had a scary cover with demons getting their shit owned by a man. the way this artwork is done is supposed to be graphic, it's supposed to be sinister looking. but good god... what would these people think if they heard that a Mormon helped create this game?! Sandy Petersen himself said that he didn't care about the demons, that they are merely cartoons, and besides, they're the bad guys. that's the logic I sense in Doom... some scientists spork up and open a portal to Hell, demons come through, they kill/possess people, now what? is some Christian gonna pull that non-violent card or something, saying that killing is a sin? spork that, there's hell to pay, and the demons die. I don't exit a level in Doom unless the kill ratio is 100%, and you should follow the same rules of living.

as for the scary goats, pentagrams, upsidedown crosses and what-not, THAT'S THE SETTING OF THE GAME. what the spork do they think Hell is supposed to look like? and even if it wasn't the Hell levels, but the Mars moons, wouldn't you think using your imagination and pretending that the demons did a little redecorating would seem feasible?

another organization I love is the PMRC. I'm gonna lay it out for you all... aside from a few bad apples, how many of you really want to go outside and lay the smack down on someone with a chainsaw because you used one in Doom? how many of you want to take an axe to your mother's skull? ... I didn't think so. games don't make killers. music doesn't make killers. bad words don't make people bad. and god damnit, movies don't make killers. I may speak of the violence, but thus far I don't recall ever actually killing someone...
I was raised by people that actually go to church, watch R-rated movies, say spork so many times it's like a comma, and ran an arcade that had Mortal Kombat, NARC, and of the like ... and you don't see them killing people. you don't see me killing people. and although I love to say the word spork on here, even I know my limits. I think it's complete horseshit that when I'm at my girlfriend's house (Catholics, btw) that I have to practically monitor every single word before I say it out of fear of actually pissing one of them off. bear in mind, I haven't been asked that wonderful question yet.. "are you Catholic?" ... and we know the Catholics... their religion is superior to all other religions.  Slipgate - Ninja

they're wonderful people though. I think they've been pretty nice to me so far. but if you want demonstration of how psycho some Christians can be, I'll take my old janitor from my dorm floor as a wonderful example. he won't let his kids watch/read anything-Harry Potter because it promotes cult followings. he also goes and says that evolution is not possible, because some psycho came up with a math equation that takes us from Noah's Ark all the way to today and it's correct, meaning evolution is impossible and that we're derived from 8 beings or some shit. now whether you support evolution or not, remember fossils? Slipgate - Wink

and another thing, I think it's horseshit that I live in a society where everyone gets offended by stupid shit. like you can't refer to gay people as fags without stirring up some pissing and moaning. you can't eat meat and not have to hear some dipshit PETA supporter giving you the 3rd degree because you're an animal killer. and furthermore, the origin of this part of my rant, I can't say jesus christ or god damn without having to hear a bunch of people crying about me being a sinner.


I am a sinner, Tipper Gore. I am evil. worry about your own shit, and let me play my "satanic" games in peace.
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Tabun
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« Reply #15 on: 2004-07-30, 00:48 »

Well said, skipper.

I disagree with one thing though, and that's the bit about fossils. Isn't it obvious? God has been putting millions of bones and fossils in the soil, just to trick all of us. It's a joke or a test of faith, or possibly both. Or so they say. Wait, am I making sense? I'm making sense right?

* sirens fade in *
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Phoenix
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« Reply #16 on: 2004-07-30, 10:24 »

Actually the sad part is Genesis chapter 1, if taken as it is written, shows the same progression of life from the sea onto land that is present in geologic history.  I can take time to demonstrate this if anyone cares, but right now I have a headache and it's almost 5 AM so I'm not in the mood.  Suffice it to say that some of these die-hard "literalists" need to re-read their bible.  Geology SUPPORTS what the bible says, it does not contradict it.  As for the Earth being 6,000 years old, there's no proof of that.  In fact, the bible says this:

2 Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

What's this mean?  God controls time.  It kind of comes with the territory of being "Almighty" and omnipotent, etc.  In the end He took however long He took, regardless of people's opinions on the subject.  Look, I KNOW the earth is older than 6000 years!  The dinosaurs had a long and happy reign on this world, they didn't just pop up to get washed away in Noah's flood like some seem to want to believe.  If dinosaurs ruled this earth when mankind was made, man would have not lasted at all.

Of course, there are some who will come along and say "Oh but you can interpret and twist things any way you want!"  You know what I have to say to you?  spork OFF.  I'll believe what I'll believe, and I really don't give a damn what you think of it.  Get a flocking life.  Like Mecha, I'm pretty fed up with people demanding justification for how or why I believe certain things.  There are too many holier-than-thous, religious and non-religious, running around pointing fingers at everybody.  When did God give us authority to stand in judgement of others?  Didn't he say "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
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« Reply #17 on: 2004-07-30, 15:34 »

Quote
I KNOW the earth is older than 6000 years!

really , I thought it was only 18 years old . :p

just a lame joke .
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Kain-Xavier
 

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« Reply #18 on: 2004-08-01, 00:57 »

Mecha, I think you deserve a nice, resounding "spork yes." Slipgate - Smile  And the same goes for Phoenix as always... Slipgate - Smile
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