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Gnam
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Yeah, I was wondering about that. I don't know specifically about real gatling guns, but I would have thought the ammo would be 7.62mm or something. Then again, since your bullets allready magically change between 9mm and rifle-caliber when you switch between the luger/mp40 and gats, I guess it doesn't really matter. BTW, has there ever been a heavy, squad-gunner-role machinegun made to use pistol caliber ammunition? I guess to some extent that would defeat the definition of a heavy machinegun, but just wondering. Getting shot at with a machine gun is still getting shot at with a machinegun, wether it's 9mm, or 50 cal.
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Arno
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Very impressive work, Tab! As always!  |
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Hollowpoint
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A gatling gun could really have just about any size ammo, depends on who made it. I was thinking of making a .22 calibur gatling gun. ;-)
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Phoenix
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Well, the problem with using pistol caliber rounds for the heavy machinegun role is multifaceted. First, pistol rounds are typically round-nosed or hollowpoint bullets. Rifle bullets are conical and pointed. One is like a sledgehammer, the other is like an icepick. The second is that of energy. You can empty a clip from an MP-5 into someone wearing Kevlar and it will only bruise them. Most rifle rounds have enough energy to penetrate VERY hard objects. It takes a 14 pound, 3/8" forge-hardened steel plate on top of Class III body armor to stop a round from an AK or AR-15 rifle. Rifle rounds also cause hydrostatic shock due to their high speed, which is the third part of the equation. A .45 ACP round travels at around 900 feet per second. A 7.62x39mm AK-47 round (a fairly lower power rifle cartridge) flies at around 2,000 feet per second. A .50 BMG round flies at over 4,000. Rifle bullets can fly faster, fly flatter, hit harder, and punch holes in a LOT more stuff than pistol rounds. Ballistically they're superior in every respect to pistol rounds if your objective is punching holes like mad in something. That's why actual machineguns use them. It's also a hell of a lot easier to belt rifle cartridges.
Pistol-caliber automatic weapons are called sub-machineguns. Some of them can still carry a LOT of ammo though. The Russian PPSH has a 75 round drum. Nasty weapon. Thompson submachinegun also comes to mind. Pistol-caliber subbies are still useful, but are more for close-quarters fighting whereas machineguns are more for suppressing fire and pulverizing from a mounted position. Pistol rounds are also great in crowded urban settings where rifles over-penetrate. That's why CT teams and SWAT use MP-5's and the like instead of assault rifles. Shooting through buildings is a no-no when you're a cop.
Assault rifles tend to blend the old battle rifle with the submachinegun. The AK-47 usually comes to mind as it is for all intents and purposes the most perfect incarnation of the assault rifle. It was one of the first, and is still the best for the role it was designed for. The Russians wanted something with the hitting power of a rifle that could be effective through normal combat ranges (up to about 300 meters, beyond which you need a sniper anyways), that could carry a boatload of ammunition like the PPSH, that was so simple a monkey could fieldstrip it, rugged enough you could drive a tank over it in the mud, pick it up, and still shoot it, and compact enough to be useful in close quarters. Sure there are other successful designs, and I'm not belittling those, but I'm not really wanting to debate which is best tactically either. Assault rifles are pretty much what you want in an all-out fighting gun. They're the "general-purpose" weapon, accurate enough to do longer ranges like a battle rifle, compact enough to tote around buildings, with automatic fire capability for those nasty intense close-in fights, and carrying enough ammo to mow down whatever comes your way.
Anyway, that's the skinny on why pistol-caliber guns aren't used for heavy machineguns, and a bit of interesting weapon facts for you too. 
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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games keeper
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when daddy was young he shot with a .50 machinegun
but they put 9mm bullets in it and wrapped aluminiumfoil aroudnd it so they would fit.
an then they shot a three for 10 shots (every shot the shooter flew away)
and then they had to get the hell outa there before the cop came there .
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
  
Posts: 3330
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Phoenix? Why did you shoot at gamekeeper's father? :]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Hedhunta
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well, i think the idea is that there is no problem with making a pistol round mg, it just wouldnt be effective ... (if you know the bullets are only going to bruise you.. you get the idea?) .. but i kinda object to the idea that pistol rounds only bruise.. cause thats not really true.. repeated hits.. say from a mp5 would PROBABLY go through if you managed to hit with an entire mag in relatively the same spot.. which is another reason the cops use the mp5.. because it has a good rate of fire that WILL knock you over even if your wearing a vest.. if not.. its gonna hurt more..
.45 however.. thats going to do more than bruise.. id say break bones.. .45 was designed with stopping power in mind.. so its gonna hurt regardless of vest..
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games keeper
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thats why I use panzerfaust.
(only the boots remain)
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dev/null
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Oh, and what nice boots they are :lol:
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Hedhunta
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obviously pho, but i figured talking pistol rounds you were talking about what normally they would be up against.. obviously, higher armor ratings block more stuff.. heh
oh.. lol i just watched the second harry potter movie.. i didnt realise you were making movie appearences now!
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« Last Edit: 2003-05-25, 03:41 by Hedhunta »
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Phoenix
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Oh Fawkes? He's a bit on the small side, beaks the wrong color too. My beak is happily golden thank you, along with my feet, although I must admit they got the colors VERY close on my plumage. Crest is off a bit, and I've got more feathers on the face, but other than that I was quite surprised. They did a supurb job. I was pleasantly surprised.
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« Last Edit: 2003-05-25, 10:15 by Phoenix »
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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games keeper
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who cares what class of bullets would penetrate it. if yo shoot enough bullets of something it will eventualy kill your opponent . try shooting gummybears at your opponent with a firerate of 600 a minute. the guy will choke in it. sweet dead |
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Hedhunta
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Oh Fawkes? He's a bit on the small side, beaks the wrong color too. My beak is happily golden thank you, along with my feet, although I must admit they got the colors VERY close on my plumage. Crest is off a bit, and I've got more feathers on the face, but other than that I was quite surprised. They did a supurb job. I was pleasantly surprised. ah.. so he was one of yer buds eh... cool, thought there was only one pho around.. |
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Gnam
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I allready knew the difference between pistol rounds/SMGs and rifle rounds/assault rifles/full machineguns, that was my point. It would be funny if there actually was some obscure full-size machinegun that used pistol rounds just because videogames always lump pistol, SMG, and AR/machinegun ammunition in one category called bullets, and normally it's thought of as an innacuracy in realism. Wouldn't it be funny if there was some obscure weapon in existence no one knew about that validated having cross-compatible bullets?
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Vadertime
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Obviously it was too hard to make the concept work. There's actually a lot of variety in bullets and no game maker would want the hassle of recreating it all. My brother has a 25 auto pistol and a 45 auto pistol. BIG difference just in those two pistols. My 8x57 mm mauser is typical of old full powered rifles. One thing I didn't like about DOOM was the chaingun that fired the same wimpy 9mm bullets as the Berretta you start with yet it had 6 barrels and was still as slow as a WW1 water-cooled machinegun. With dehacked I usually made it as fast as an uzi or faster. It made a HUGE difference too. Also to answer gameskeeper, gummy bears wouldn't work on some things if a million were in the air in a minute. If the thing they hit was hard enough it would just have a gummy bear coating. Speaking of DOOM's Beretta pistol, isn't there a way you can make him shoot it with one hand? Somebody was complaining about his big hands smothering it in the post called DOOM rifle.
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Hedhunta
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when pho codes proper animation stuff.. ill be happy to fix it.. heh.. whenever your ready i am pho(well, im not ready to june 6th though)
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games keeper
Elite
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vaer if im starting to shoot gummybears to your eyes ond 1 hits ya there your gonna cry it out to your mommy or kill yourself from the pain .  so dont say they are dangerous. and watch out till I start shooting. black belgium chocolat at you. your gonna wish it where bullets . any way we can make a commander keen class witch shoots gummybears , pho ? (just kidding) |
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« Last Edit: 2003-05-26, 19:03 by games keeper »
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