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Author Topic: Speaking of Government Abuses  (Read 15406 times)
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Phoenix
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« Reply #20 on: 2005-05-20, 19:46 »

Right, oil, and that's why Iraq's oil production is lower than before the war began, and why people are complaining about gasoline being so freaking expensive?  Seriously, if you're going to pick a reason, at least do some research and stop buying the damned soundbites!  Oil is not the reason, I don't care how many times people try to make the connection it just isn't there.  It's a nice cover for what may be some other underhanded agenda, but results speak for themselves.  The oil isn't flowing, so look elsewhere for the real explanation.

mecha:  Actually I'm in agreement with you on a lot of what you said.  I was aghast at the proposed base closings.  To me it's suicidal behavior.  You do not win wars by shipping your entire military overseas, engaging them in a long, drawn out, and apparently endless conflict, and then cutting back on your available forces while engaged in a war that will take "as long as it takes".  What's the difference if you lose troops through casualties or budget cuts?  Losses are still losses, and small armies, historically, have a much poorer chance of winning than larger ones.  Sure, a smaller, well-equipped and well-trained force can beat a larger one, but recent events don't give me much faith in the command staff at the Pentagon right now.  This is as bad as McNamara's "Whiz Kids".  There are too many damned theory boys and not enough experienced veteran soldiers in charge.  This whole situation is a recipe for disaster.  Either somebody in the Pentagon is really, really stupid, or this is a deliberate set-up to weaken the US military.

Yes, Bush is running up a good tab, but I don't care about the $80 billion to fund the war.  I'm more peeved about the $400 billion Medicare prescription drug bill that nobody wanted, nobody really needs, and is going to cost 100 times that much in the long run.  You want to talk about wasteful spending?  This was the stupidest idea to come across in a long time, and for what?  To appease Ted Kennedy?  I don't think putting Clinton back in the White House is any good idea either.  Anyone forget the base closings under him?  Anyone forget what a dismal failure Bosnia was?  How about Mogadishu?  How about Albright giving the North Koreans a nuclear reactor on a silver platter?  Oh look, now they have nuclear weapons, oh boo hoo!  They didn't play nice like they said they would![/sarcasm]  Don't allow dislike for the current administration to blind you to the mistakes and poor judgement of previous ones.  Remember that Clinton is out for one person and one person only - Clinton.  The same is true for Hillary.  Forget this at your own peril in 2008.

You want to talk about regime change?  Just throw all of them out.  I've seen enough of politicians on every side, and I'm quite content in the conclusion that humans attempting to govern themselves with politicians is the most failed and idiotic concept of all time.  All they do is mess everything up and point fingers at each other for it.  Bah, they're all guilty!  Out with the lot of them says I.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-20, 19:49 by Phoenix » Logged


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« Reply #21 on: 2005-05-20, 20:03 »

I still pay $2.13 a gallon for gas. If you ask me gas prices went up for the war effort. Oil is not the issue. That is the quick and easy excuse for this whole conflict instead of analyzing the real issues on why we are there.
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scalliano
 

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« Reply #22 on: 2005-05-20, 22:23 »

The oil isn't flowing right now because there's virtually no infrastructure left in Iraq for anyone to do business with. Petrol prices are increasing just like in 1991. If oil isn't the reason, then why haven't the coalition taken out other dictators by force like Mugabe, why wasn't Bin Laden caught ages ago and why were previous conflicts such as the one in the former Yugoslavia allowed to continue for so long without anyone doing anything? Answer: no profit. I am not one for jumping on bandwagons and this is no exception, but it doesn't take much working out. Are all of those oil fields being sabotaged just for the sake of vandalism? I think not.

All this considered, I totally agree with Pho's last paragraph.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #23 on: 2005-05-21, 18:23 »

Let's not forget who was profitting from Saddam's oil before the war as well.  Just count the countries that opposed the war, who kept dragging their feet on enforcement of the UN resolutions.  The blood for oil began long before any bombs fell, only the US wasn't making any profit from any of it, its opponents were.  What I don't understand is why the corruption isn't getting any of the outrage that the war itself did.  If people don't want blood for oil, does it matter how that blood is being spilled, or by whom, or who's taking the money to the bank?  Dead is dead, from bombs or starvation, from conflict or oppression.  How many died because Saddam was pocketing oil sales instead of feeding his people?  How many bureaucrats in the UN, and political officials in countries around the world are guilty in that matter?  The entire situation was and remains intolerable.  Perhaps the war was wrong, at this point I cannot say one way or the other though the results are certainly disappointing to me, but I know without any doubt that profitting illegally from under the table oil sales while you watch people starve and be brutalized under a dictatorship is as wrong as it gets.  Everyone's got blood on their hands from this, not just the US, and nobody's being held accountable for it.  That's the saddest part about the whole thing.  There are no winners in this at all, only casualties.
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Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #24 on: 2005-05-21, 18:32 »

Werd, yo... werd.

That's all I can say really.
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"Everybody's got a price" - 'The Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase
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