Oh yeah, Con dropped this one in the channel:

http://www.wired.com/news/games/0,2101,682...tw=wn_tophead_1

That's right, let's just shift the blame to the people who buy your freaking product and want to tinker with it!  Let's kill off the mod communities!  Oh yes, and we need the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT involved in this!  Just remember who's wanting the FTC investigation here and who's turning this into a Federal matter when it comes election time.  Oh yes, I will never, ever buy a product from Rockstar or Take Two in the future.  They want to blame the gamers for their own stupidity, they'll have no money from me.  Ever.[/color]

http://www.gtasanandreas.net/news/single.php?id=1469

wel the movie itself is quit funny I think .

Sham: I'm a big fan of the GTA games (not that I can get to play them on my PC these days). I consider myself a reasonably stable individual and as such feel that your comment is a little unfair. There is a giant chasm between, for example, terrorism and playing a computer game based around crime. One of the main things I like to do in GTA is wage war on the cops and see how long I can survive before they ultimately either arrest me of kill me. Try doing that in real life. The big question on that score is: why does anyone like to play violent games of any description? I sure as hell am not out to hurt anyone.

Everyone: As for the whole "hot coffee" debacle, for a start, I've given it a go (that's the type of person I am ) and, to be honest, I think that the likes of Sen. Clinton are blowing it way out of proportion. Here's why:

1. I'm not up to speed on the US ratings system, but in the UK GTA San Andreas comes with a big red "18" on the front, spine and back of the cover, as well as on the disc itself.

2. In gameplay terms, this mini-game is the type of thing that would end up being more of a pain in the arse than an entertaining distraction after a while. It was funny once, but after a quick giggle I went straight back to the default mission script file and carried on playing the game as it was intended. (BTW I'm 26 years old.)

All this considered, though, I am in agreement with Pho as Take2 have made a big mistake shifting the blame on to the modding community. This was bound to happen. If you don't clean up your software properly there are modders out there who WILL find all of the bits you didn't want anyone to find. Ironic, since the PC version was billed by R* as "mod-friendly". Bastards.

The biggest problem in my mind is the ESRB rating system itself.  I must admit that I am unfamiliar with how other countries conduct their rating system, but I am fairly certain that only the USA and Canada feature the M and the AO rating.

Let's examine what the definition of each rating is according to the Electronic Software Rating Board.


MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.

ADULTS ONLY
Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.


I think the ESRB rating system is a wonderful idea, and to be honest, I think the ESRB does a great job at rating games.  My problem with the rating system lies in the distinction between what constitutes an M rated title from an AO rated title.  The only difference between the ratings from what I can see is that an AO game features explicit nudity in a sexual situation.

Let's compare Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas to Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude for instance.

Leisure Suit Larry features graphic sexual content and implicit sexual content.  However, it scored an M rating because censor bars mask the explicit nudity.

In addition to its M rating, it has the following descriptors: "Mature Humor, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Alcohol"

(The uncensored version of the game, which is rated AO, has the same descriptors by the way.)

Unfortunately, the ESRB website only features the new AO rating for Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas so we'll need to infer what it originally was by comparing it to its predecessor, GTA: Vice City.

GTA San Andreas: "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs"

GTA Vice City:    "Blood and Gore, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Violence"

Ok.  So "Nudity" we definitely know wasn't present in the original M rating of San Andreas.  (The "Hot Coffee" mod depicts nude females in sexual situations with the main character.)  The "Use of Drugs" and the "Intense Violence" were probably already there.  (Although I find the "Intense Violence" descriptor a bit odd since I don't believe the game is any more violent than its predecessor.)  Going back to Leisure Suit Larry, we can see that it also features "Nudity" as a descriptor, and in my mind, has far more sexual content than GTA San Andreas.  The single determining factor in the ratings of each game is that one has censor bars!  That's utter bullshit in my mind.

Here's what I propose the ESRB should do.  The M rating needs to be slightly redefined, and the M rating also needs to have its age restriction lowered to 16.  (An age difference of a year to buy a game that features the same content sans censoring bars is stupid in my opinion.)  M rated games should no longer feature "strong sexual content" but rather "sexual themes"/"crude humor" or something that merely implies the idea.

My revised definition...

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 16 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, implicit sexual content, and/or strong language.

According to my revision of the Mature rating, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas would still be rated AO, but I never said that I wouldn't want it otherwise.  The problem with AO-rated games is that public retailers don't want to touch them with a twenty-foot pole.  (There are many reasons for this no doubt, but it would be nice for them to be publically available somewhere.)  What cracks me up the most, is that the GTA series is a hot seller, so I am wondering how companies will try to reneg on their policies to put the game out on the shelves.  Hell, Wal-Mart doesn't stock most M-rated titles, but they reneg on the ones they think will sell well.  I can just imagine their response to the ESRB re-rating GTA, and it brings a smile to my face.  ~

Anyhow, to summarize my points that have nothing to do with any of the above argument...

a.)  Rockstar should keep doing what it's doing.
b.)  Take 2 Interactive is composed of assholes if they think the mod community is to blame.
c.)  Nobody really bitched when a South Park cartoon was left on the disc of one of Tiger Woods games for Playstation.

I can see the news now...

J/K

Fair do, Sham. As a victim of bullying in primary school, I can see your point. I just picked it up wrong.

Crime sims are not something I have a problem with generally (as many have probably guessed), but they aren't the kind of games I would want kids playing. I come from a neighbourhood where parental apathy reigns supreme. I've seen 7 and 8 year old kids coming back from the shops with SanAn in their hands. That scared me even before the whole hot coffee thing came about. In the UK games are subject to exactly the same ratings system as movies (The British Board of Film Classification), however you will only ever see a BBFC certificate on a 15 or 18 rated game. All of the GTA games are 18 rated, whereas the likes of, say, Doom is a 15. The ESRB ratings seem a bit ambiguous.

I don't feel that the GTA games are particularly realistic, but they are highly satirical in their approach. The real appeal of the games for me is that you have so much freedom to do what you like and there's lots to do. Many a night has been spent around the games at my gaff with a few mates and a few (more) beers, taking turns to try and pull off the most spectacular car chases and stunts. That said, we are all adults and can appreciate it for what it is.

As for Take2 and R*, they really need to grow a pair of balls and own up. The GTA modding community is a large one, and the implications of their "wasn't us" statement has the potential to cause even more damage than is already done, especially if the Feds are involved. If they weren't responsible for the hot coffee code, then how come it can be accessed on the PS2 version with an ARMax? The whole affair sickens me.

Nudity in Disney film article
 ~

oh and here is what is on the originally M-rated San Andreas box....
Mature 17+
Blood and Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs

Did somebody mention "Fight Club"?

actually , if anyone has that movie of disney , you can find the pic at where the bird is diving down the building with the 2 mice on his back .
On the background you can see the naked woman trough the window.