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Author Topic: Where the heck is everyone?  (Read 19658 times)
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Lightning Hunter
 

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« Reply #20 on: 2005-10-18, 01:14 »

Quote
Incomplete - Fist model, icon, sounds ect are all included in the installation, but you cannot select it in any shape or form as it isn't coded in yet (same logic with weapon animations).

Anyone who downloads your mod and has no clue what you have intentionally left in and out will assume your example above is a bug.  You have to see this from a fans point of view and not a creator.  This is what I do with my own projects; otherwise, you will miss an awful lot of things that the fans will complain about.

Quote
Quake 3 by default doesn't have "true" weapon animation. It has to be coded in.
Q3 animates weapons through the *_hand.md3
It isn't a "true" animation due to it just moving/rotating the model.
The alternating barrels on the Slipgate Nailgun isn't possible on the default Q3 code.
Reason for them not having animations yet is what they need isn't possible yet. You can't have a grenade get twisted (Strogg) with just a *_hand.md3.

I knew all this already.  I have been following Generations for several years you know.  Slipgate - Wink

Quote
If I decided to make my mod not have any first person weapon models, does that make it a bug? Nope, because I planned to do that.
Like I said above, a fan that has no idea what you intentionally left in and out of the mod WILL think it's a bug, unless you intended the mod to not have any weapons as part of the game play (ie. a single player adventure in which you use no weapons).

I wasn't going to speak on this subject anymore, but heh.  Whatever. Slipgate - Tongue
« Last Edit: 2005-10-18, 01:15 by Lightning Hunter » Logged
Phoenix
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« Reply #21 on: 2005-10-18, 01:49 »

Thank you, l4mbs.  Right now I feel so rotten I wish it were time to set myself on fire so I could be done with it.

Quote from: OoPpEe
Bugs that are in my mod:
I can help explain a few of these since I've run into some similar things.
Quote
"Tracer" weapons don't spawn any blood on the "death hit" (shot that kills them). So I can shoot enemies and they bleed, but if the shot kills them, no blood is spawned.
This is a result of how Q3 does shotgun code.  Q3 machinegun doesn't have this problem, but shotties do.  Why?  CG_ClipMoveToEntities can't clip against a corpse.  The reason is when trap_linkentity is run on the server after a player is killed it clears entityState.solid.  Machinegun code sends the blood impact with the bullet trace, and traces BEFORE player_die so it always traces correctly.  Since the shotgun sends a seeded random and does all the client tracing locally the entity is already removed from the client's solid list by the time the event reaches the client.  This will always be the case, even though the event is sent in the same snapshot as the player death because client entities are always processed first.  I tried hacking CG_ClipMoveToEntities to make players solid even when dead, but so far it's only worked on a local server.  I just decided it was easier and didn't eat up any real bandwidth to just fake it by sending blood impacts from the server's impact points (post .99f, so don't look for it in Gen yet) and told the shotgun code on the client to not draw blood impacts at all, only wall impacts.  It means you'll see a few extra wall impacts behind a player who just died, but hey, at least you can see you hit the guy. Slipgate - Smile

Quote
Shells float if they land on a mover.
That's because Q3's mover code sucks.  Grenades do the same thing.  Don't even get me started on func_rotating..  I had to rewrite a lot of it for Gen so that movers could work properly with projectiles, dropped items, corpses, etc.

Quote
Dead bodies will only bounce on jumppads if the client hasn't respawned yet (so their corpse will continue bouncing on the jumppad forever if they dont respawn, but the moment they respawn, it stops bouncing).
That's because when the player respawns a "fake player" called a "bodycue" is put in its place.  As long as the player hasn't respawned the corpse is the player.  Once the player respawns it runs copytobodycue and creates the copy of the player.  It's not a perfect carry over, some stuff is still shared between the corpse and respawned player (like clientinfo_t stuff) and some stuff isn't.  The "bouncing body" is a result of something not getting cleared on the server so the bouncepad is treating the dead, unrespawned player the same as if it were a live one.  You'll have to decide if you want all corpses to bounce, or no corpses to bounce to fix that one.  Shouldn't take much to tell a jump pad to ignore corpses.

Yes, the weapon animation system is a "from the ground up" venture.  There's more than one way to do it for sure.  I won't say any one way is the "right" way.  Depends on how complex your animations are, how complex the weapon behaviors are, and how "in sync with the server" you want your prediction to be.  Our current animations in .99f are just hacks.   The real animation system is what nobody outside the team has seen yet.[/color]
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Phoenix
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« Reply #22 on: 2005-10-18, 01:51 »

Quote from: Lightning Hunter
Anyone who downloads your mod and has no clue what you have intentionally left in and out will assume your example above is a bug.
Hate double posting, but I had to get an Slipgate - RTFM in for that one.  Usually we put a "coming soon" or a "not done yet" or "known issues" section in the user's manual and/or readme files.  We always encourage people to read the manual.  The manual is your friend.  Whoever reads our manual is our friend too.  Thumbs up!
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Lightning Hunter
 

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« Reply #23 on: 2005-10-18, 05:41 »

Quote from: Phoenix
Hate double posting, but I had to get an Slipgate - RTFM in for that one.  Usually we put a "coming soon" or a "not done yet" or "known issues" section in the user's manual and/or readme files.  We always encourage people to read the manual.  The manual is your friend.  Whoever reads our manual is our friend too.  Thumbs up!
I myself love manuals! Slipgate - Wink  Unfortunately, most of the people who download mods don't read manuals though.  They would rather take one look at the incomplete stuff and use their delete key correspondingly.

This thread has gone off topic with this anyway...  If you guys would rather call it incomplete than buggy, then fine with me.  It doesn't change my opinion about anything one way or the other, and I still won't treat the current beta releases as finished.  Yes, I know I am very picky.  :o
« Last Edit: 2005-10-18, 05:43 by Lightning Hunter » Logged
OoPpEe
 
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« Reply #24 on: 2005-10-18, 06:50 »

Thanks for the pointers there Phoenix.
LoRE has been working with the shotgun code for quite awhile now and the best he achieved was extra blood being spawned.
It worked but was odd, the death shot spawned the blood he coded in, but "normal" hits spawned the blood he coded in AND the blood it was suppost to spawn, so needless to say the best fix we had was a FPS killer lol. I will have to forward your message to him.

About the Bouncing body, we want corpses to bounce on jumppads. The glitch is what I said, it stops after they respawn (as it is no longer a client). We have dead bodies take teleporters too (again, they won't if they respawn).
Currently we are tying to get all items to take teleporters and jumppads. We did have all projectiles take jumppads but it got too weird seeing a rocket hit get fired at a jumppad from above, then it suddenly does a 180 degree turn instantly and goes back up. So we just made Grenades take them.
All weapon projectiles go through teleporters (minus BFG as our projectile is too massive to fit through most teles).
We are wanting dropped weapons, shells, gibs to all take jumppads and teleporters.
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Lopson
 

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« Reply #25 on: 2005-10-18, 12:42 »

Now that would be a nice thing to happen. Rockets through jumppads would be stupid, but grenades is perfectly rational, since the explosion is timed (2 or 3 secs to explode). But to put gibs on jumppads would (as far as I understand and as far as you and Phoenix said) require to do the same thing as the Q3 does to the "jumping corpses", or is it possible to make the gibs jump without making the game believe that the player is the gibs? And making shots go through the teleports is also a nice idea. Another thing that bothers me is: how can you make objects & weapons jump on the jumppads, or how can you make projetiles go through teleporters?
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Phoenix
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« Reply #26 on: 2005-10-18, 16:28 »

Well projectiles would be easy to teleport.  Just treat them like a player in  the teleporter code, or check for clipping into a teleporter in the projectile movement code.

Gibs in Q3 are pretty much a client-side effect.  When someone gibs, they are changed from ET_PLAYER to ET_INVISIBLE, and an event - EV_GIB_PLAYER - is sent to the client with an origin point.  It spawns the "meatspray" at that spot, and that's the end of it.

Here's what I modified on the client when I was attempting the "get the blood to show on the shotguns".  If you can use it and make something work out of it, be my guest.  Like I said it worked on a local game, but not at all with lag.  I might tinker with it again sometime, might just be something stupid I missed.

File is here.
« Last Edit: 2005-10-18, 16:33 by Phoenix » Logged


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Lopson
 

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« Reply #27 on: 2005-10-20, 17:32 »

Quote from: Phoenix
Well projectiles would be easy to teleport.  Just treat them like a player in  the teleporter code, or check for clipping into a teleporter in the projectile movement code.
Well that might be easy for you coding bird but not for an "average joe". How exactly can you treat a projectile as a person? It's something I'd love to do but to do it, I have to know how to.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #28 on: 2005-10-20, 19:42 »

There are two logical places to look regarding interactions.  Since we're dealing with teleporters and projectiles, that narrows it down to:

1)  The code that a teleporter uses to, well, teleport things and
2)  The code that makes missiles fly through the air and do missile-related things like, well, blowing up.

Well we know teleporters affect players.  What exactly are players?  Players, to the code, are entities, just like missiles are.  So what we need to do is look at the teleporter code and see how it tells one entity apart from another.  Low and behold, doing a simple text search for the word "teleporter" in the "game" folder yields a file called g_trigger.c.  Sounds promising, let's search the file, and what do we have here?

Code:
/*
==============================================================================

trigger_teleport

==============================================================================
*/

void trigger_teleporter_touch (gentity_t *self, gentity_t *other, trace_t *trace ) {
gentity_t *dest;

if ( !other->client ) {
  return;
}
if ( other->client->ps.pm_type == PM_DEAD ) {
  return;
}
// Spectators only?
if ( ( self->spawnflags & 1 ) &&
  other->client->sess.sessionTeam != TEAM_SPECTATOR ) {
  return;
}


dest =  G_PickTarget( self->target );
if (!dest) {
  G_Printf ("Couldn't find teleporter destinationn");
  return;
}

TeleportPlayer( other, dest->s.origin, dest->s.angles );
}

Well there you have it.  It ignores anything that's not a client (if ent->client is null, like in the case of a missile, it ignores it), anything that's dead, and does a check to see if it should only teleport spectators (so spectators can go through doors).  If all the conditions are met it examines the teleporter's target then runs "TeleportPlayer".  Well, if you want it to teleport a MISSILE you need to do the following:

1)  Code a function called TeleportMissile that basically does for missiles what TeleportPlayer does for players
2)  Check other->s.eType against ET_MISSILE.  If true, then run your "TeleportMissile" function.  Make sure you do this check BEFORE you check against ent->client or it will return without reaching your missile check.

Any questions?[/color]  Slipgate - Wink
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Lopson
 

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« Reply #29 on: 2005-10-20, 19:47 »

Where can I find the file to edit? In a pk3?
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shambler
 
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« Reply #30 on: 2005-10-20, 20:07 »

At least we now know there we all are.......... Thumbs up!
I'm under the red spot.
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OoPpEe
 
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« Reply #31 on: 2005-10-20, 23:17 »

Quote from: [KruzadeR
] Where can I find the file to edit? In a pk3?
No, you would have to download the game source code and code it in. Won't include Generations stuff though (as that is obviously not included in the source code)
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Phoenix
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« Reply #32 on: 2005-10-21, 01:13 »

Aye, and you'd have to set up to compile it, and you better know something about "C" or be prepared to learn it the hard way (like I had to).
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Lopson
 

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« Reply #33 on: 2005-10-21, 09:42 »

I don't have MS Visual Basic, so I can't do this...or can I? Is there a way to compile coding without Visual Basic?
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Arnie
 

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« Reply #34 on: 2005-10-21, 18:33 »

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: 2005-10-22, 09:50 by Arnie » Logged

Will everybody stop getting shot.......
Phoenix
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« Reply #35 on: 2005-10-21, 19:08 »

Quake 3 Arena's game source does not require Visual Studio to compile it.  It comes with batch files for compiling the .qvm's, and a version of a freeware compiler (LCC) so you only need the source code and a little setup work, at least, on Windows-based systems.  For the record, I do most of my coding in Wordpad.

Now keep in mind this is the Q3A 1.32 GAME SOURCE, not the ENGINE SOURCE.  That's a totally different source and DOES require Visual Studio .net or better to compile.
« Last Edit: 2005-10-21, 19:09 by Phoenix » Logged


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« Reply #36 on: 2005-10-21, 22:46 »

I actually registered on this forum to ask this question, This is a great mod with great potential. I think a little 5 vs 5 CTF would be awesome, even just for a few minutes. It would be great if we can liven up some of the servers a bit.
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