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Author Topic: So I've played...  (Read 23602 times)
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Tabun
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« Reply #40 on: 2007-08-11, 13:05 »

For me, the whole 'too scripted' thing doesn't feel so bad, at least most of the time. I know that most things that look simple to the player are in fact very hard to simulate (without at least something as powerful as a pigeon's brain to power the AI that has to make it work). I can forgive game companies for taking the 'easy' way out in most cases, since that is pretty much the only way in which games can improve their likeness to movies.
What strikes me as odd, btw, is that players so often shrug at the sight of rather amazing feats, such as HL2's face animation and real-time voice-wavs based lip-synhronization. It's so easy to get used to good stuff, and so hard to forget the bad. I just do what I do when watching sci-fi or fantasy movies: allow myself to be immersed into something like a dreamworld. And quirks don't drag me out of that in a hurry, unless they're really obnoxious.
But then, I'm a pixel prodder, so I usually focus on graphics anyway -- I find it a lot easier to accept annoyances like level loading, script bugs and AI problems, than to forgive texture repetition or downright ugliness.

Seeing the lack of brilliant A.I. and such as a display of 'how far games didn't get', although perfectly true, is like going over space exploration results and focusing on the fact that we haven't even visited Alpha Centauri (or, Nemesis, for Asimov-fans) yet. :]
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #41 on: 2007-08-11, 21:31 »

I don't shrug at the good parts.  In fact, I think it's rather amazing that games are what they are, considering that a few decades ago there were no such things as video games.  I think the bar has been raised so high now that being innovative is becoming harder for the designers.  That's probably a fault of the gamers, but then, gamers are a fickle audience by their very nature.  How do you keep the interest of people who, by and large, have exceedingly short attention spans coupled with exponentially increasing expectations?  How do you do what hasn't been done before?  Before Wolfenstein, first-person gaming was almost unheard of.  You had a few simulations, like the old Star Trek, and Battle Zone, then Hovertank, but everyone knew Wolf.  Everyone wanted to shoot those Nazis.  Then came Doom, and the world of gaming changed forever.  Then Quake, and online gaming was born.  Half-Life came along and made a war hero out of a physicist who had never handled a gun prior and showed the world that "yes, nerds can kick ass".  And the game kicked ass and moved the FPS into a more real-world setting with an edge of uncertainty and unease about what might happen next.  It introduced a bit of subtle problem-solving as well.  When I played Half-Life 2 the puzzles seemed obvious and contrived.  Episode 1 I think brought back some of the feel of the original in some places.  I want a puzzle to make me have to think and not be overly obvious.

The effort it takes to make a game like Doom 3 or Half-Life 2 is staggering.  I do think it's underappreciated the effort that goes into making them.  I'm not trying to knock that.  Detail in games does get my attention.  I remember playing Unreal and drooling over the skyboxes and the environmental beauty.  Here was a whole world, complete with a populace that actually had a culture behind it and in the process of fighting the bad guys you were, in essence, saving someone else's world.  To me, Quake 2, Half-Life, and Unreal represent the pinnacle of single-player FPS gaming where you had rock-solid gameplay, impressive (enough) visuals, interesting enemies and weapons, and a large amount of freedom within the overall linear progression of the game.

Visually what can be done within a game is fantastic now, but what about the gameplay itself?  That's where my primary concern is now.  I love eye candy, but if a game stops being fun I'm not likely to continue playing it. It just seems anymore that at one end of the spectrum you have very narrow, scripted gameplay where you have to follow an exact path and everything's always going to happen the same way or very close to it, at the other you have an open mosh pit.  I just think games like Doom, Quake, Quake 2, and Unreal had a much better balance between what the designers intend for you to do and how you can choose to go about doing it.  I look at new stuff coming out like Rage and wonder, after all the effort that's going into making the games look interesting visually, what's the gameplay going to be like?  Is it something I'm going to want to play over and over again?

Consider this.  I could pay $5-$10 for an Atari 2600 game cartridge when it was new, and play it over, and over, and over, hours and hours of fairly repetitive gameplay that visually was as primitive as you could get, and yet I still find a lot of these old games entertaining.  Today new games cost around $50 and perhaps they are worth one or two replays.  So does the complexity of the technology make games better?  I think it just makes them more realistic to some degree, but to me that's only valuable up to a point.  I'm not willing to shell out $50 for a potential disappointment, especially when the hardware to play them is very costly.  Why do you think I wait for "next gen" games to hit the bargain bin?  I sure as hell wouldn't have paid more than the $10 I paid for Quake 4, and that was only because it's the DVD copy that has installers with patched copies of Q2 and the Q2 mission packs incase I ever have to do a from-scratch reinstall.  To give you some better idea, I first played a demo of Quake 2 in software mode at 320x200 after picking up a copy of Wolfenstein 3D (the demo was on the Wolf CD) because I lost my Spear of Destiny disk and I wanted to play Spear.  The gameplay in the demo impressed me enough to buy it outright and play it on outdated hardware - and I never did get around to playing Spear, come to think of it.  After getting a voodoo 2 card Quake 2 became my second favorite game of all time after Doom.  I have yet to see a game since Quake 2 that would convince me to "go out and buy it right now".  I'm wondering if I'll ever see that property in a game again, or if I've just become too jaded and hard to impress.  I do enjoy the newer games to some degree, but not to the degree I enjoyed the older games.  I'm still trying to pin down exactly why that is.
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« Reply #42 on: 2007-08-11, 22:46 »

I think a large part of the deficiencies in gameplay these days come down to AI and level design. One of the great things about games like the original Doom and even Marathon, was that if you ran away the enemies would follow you all over the level trying to get you. Sure, they weren't very smart about it, but you had a level of emergent gameplay there which is lacking in games like Doom 3, where the enemy will just chase you to the end of the room, then turn around and go stand in his spawn point. It felt like the enemies were actually living in the environment and doing their thing, and you just happened to walk in on it.

By comparison, everything in Doom 3 is obviously set up. The enemy always comes out of a closet, or just plain spawns in. Spawning was the worst part of Doom 3, because it was obvious the designers were just too lazy to think of a creative way of encountering the enemy. This is where I think games like Stalker and Bioshock will make a huge difference, because enemies will actually live and roam around in the environment rather than just being tossed in the room to fight you when you walk in.

Also, as far as level design...come on, we didn't need to be stuck in those stupid science labs for 90% of Doom 3. Doom 1 was a journey into Hell...in Doom 3 you dip your feet in Hell for 2 seconds then you go back to dicking around the military base.

One of the things I enjoyed in Doom 1 was that it gave the Illusion that you were set free to roam around the Phobos moon base as you pleased...if you wanted you could take alternate routes to different builings (ie the secret levels) and try to exterminate every last monster or you could just head straight for Deimos and Hell. It would be great to see a Doom game that actually achieved that; essentially gave you a whole base you explore as you pleased...though you could still just head straight towards the end if you wanted.

Furthermore...I want to see a shooter that takes you into hell the way Pan's Labrynth did, the way Barlowe's Inferno did, or the way 2001 Space Odyssey took you into space. Doom 3 was a cop out.
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