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Author Topic: Well now that we're nearly ending this year...  (Read 5574 times)
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Sucutrule
 

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« on: 2007-12-25, 00:10 »

Do ya believe in 2012?


I wouldn't be surprised if this has been posted before, since it's something kinda, universal.


I don't believe in 2012. In fact I think it's just a load of bollocks. I mean, first there was 1997 with that meteor thing, then was the Y2K bug "problem" (that actually never existed) and now we're suppoused to believe that the world ends just because the mayans had a mayor change in their calendar. I'm not mayan, I don't even know if there are any mayans left, but who cares? The world changes for them, not for us.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #1 on: 2007-12-25, 01:20 »

The year 2012 is simply a year of astronomical significance to the Mayans, but the Mayans aren't around anymore, at least, not as a recognizable culture.  In that it's different from Y2K - which was based on a possible electronics glitch - and I don't know anything about a meteor and 1997.  With 2012 it's simply the end of their calendar and the ending of an age.  I am not a student of Mayan culture so I do not know how much of it is hype and how much is based in a factual belief of the Maya of any kind of cataclysmic event being coupled with this ending of their calendar cycle.  I know more about the Hopi of the American Southwest.  They believe in a coming time of great purification, and that it is very near, which does mesh with Christian end time prophecies as well as messages given by apparitions of the Blessed Mother to many Catholic visionaries as well.  Al Gore and the Global Warming cult believe the world will be destroyed by carbon dioxide (?) so there is pretty much a general sense of some great impending disaster on the earth in one form or another, but as for believing that 2012 plays some role in it... well I'm not one to try to set dates.  I am an observer of the times, not a prophet.  It could be a year of significant change, or it may not.  I can tell you that the world is never not changing, so who can say anything for certain?

The years I place firm importance on are 1948 and 1967 because I believe in the prophecies of the bible.  1948 saw the fulfillment of Israel becoming a nation after having been scattered around the world, and 1967 when Jerusalem was retaken by the Jews in the 6th day war.  Those I pay attention to as to estimating the duration of this generation since it is written that the "Generation that lives to see this shall not pass", meaning it will be the last human generation prior to the return of Christ.  The only question of concern to me is how long a generation is in God's eyes.  In the past many have thought it to be 40 years, since that's how long the Hebrews wandered the desert after committing idolatry by worshiping the golden calf.  That's only how long it took for that generation to die off.  That would have put the return of Christ at 2007 from 1967 - impossible since the Antichrist hasn't even reared his ugly head yet and the year's almost over.  It's been calculated that a generation may be around 51 years because there is historical record of a specific period of a number of years and how many generations it was from one point to the other.  Mathematically that's how it works out, and the Jewish calendar is one of the most accurate in the world.  That calculates out to 2018 if we go by 1967.  Interestingly if you subtract off 7 years for the period of tribulation that's supposed to precede Christ's return, that comes to 2011 for the Rapture of the Church and rise of the Antichrist.  That's only one year off from the Mayan calendar, and marks the end of the Age of Grace in Christianity and a temporary return for 7 years to the fulfillment of the original Abrahamic covenant with the Jews.  Again, this is all speculation based on a mathematical calculation and fulfillment of a specific prophecy in 1967.  If someone proclaims "Christ's return will be in 2018!" or any other specific date... don't believe them.  Nobody knows except God himself.  We can only speculate based on the signs as to whether it is near or not.

All humans are going to die one day or another.  All living things do.  I think it's more important that a person concern themselves more with their own life, and their loved ones, and their friends and do what is right in the moment than worry about when someone says the world will end.  If it ends, well who can stop it?  If it does not, then who can bring it?  If it's near, then doesn't doing right and being good sound like a good idea anyway so you have nothing to worry about come Judgement Day?  If you walk into the street and get smacked by a bus, guess what?  The world just came to and end for you!  How's that any different than if a giant space rock falls on your head?  Christ commanded his followers not to look for the end of the world, but the end of the Age of Grace and his coming not because they feared some impending doom, but because they looked for his return in hope and wanted to see him again.  God knows this world needs some hope about now, so I wouldn't worry about 2012.  Let God worry about when the world is going to end, if at all.  I don't think mankind will have much say in the matter, so why worry about something you cannot change?  My two cents worth anyway.  I am curious about what others think of 2012, so don't let my long winded (as usual) reply put anyone off.
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Lopson
 

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« Reply #2 on: 2007-12-26, 01:38 »

Quote
December 31 ? Expiration of the Kyoto Protocol.

Awesome!

Quote
January 31 ? 433 Eros, the second-largest Near Earth Object on record (size 13x13x33 km) is expected to pass Earth at 0.1790 astronomical units (~16.647 Million Miles). NASA studied Eros in the NEAR Shoemaker probe launched February 2000.

Even more awesome!


On a more serious note: I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, it's gona be another normal year. Let's hope it won't be just a normal year. I'd love to see some out of the ordinary events happening in our planet.
« Last Edit: 2007-12-26, 01:41 by Lopson » Logged

scalliano
 

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« Reply #3 on: 2007-12-26, 04:03 »

... then was the Y2K bug "problem" (that actually never existed) ...

Actually, there was that bloke who got a fine of something like $10,000-odd for returning a video that was over 100 years overdue, but never mind  Slipgate - Ninja
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Sucutrule
 

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« Reply #4 on: 2007-12-26, 18:29 »

Quote
The years I place firm importance on are 1948 and 1967 because I believe in the prophecies of the bible.  1948 saw the fulfillment of Israel becoming a nation after having been scattered around the world, and 1967 when Jerusalem was retaken by the Jews in the 6th day war.

The US wants now a database of the entire world. Mark of the beast maybe?

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenew...21298958_RTRUKOC_0_US-FBI-BIOMETRICS.xml
http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/22/fbi-a...ce-fingerprint-palm-database-in-the-wor/
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Phoenix
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« Reply #5 on: 2007-12-26, 21:57 »

This may end up being a Controversy Corner thread....

Well it can't be good either way for liberty.  "It'll only be used on criminals.  We promise."  That's how it always starts.  I'm all for catching the bad guys, but consider City 17's dystopian police state, with floating cameras that watch everything you do.  How far a stretch is that really, when London already has cameras on every street corner?

The concept of the Mark of the Beast has been interpreted by many to be a subdermal microchip implant, much like Applied Digital has done with Digital Angel and the Verichip, linked to GPS satellites and remote RFID scanners.  Here's the nightmare scenario that's been predicted.  Tie it all into a massive computer database.  Everything you buy, or sell, every place you go, everything you do - it can all be tracked.  No more cash, no more checks, you just place your hand on the panel and you buy your groceries (which also have RFID - Radio Frequency Identification - tags in every item), or your clothing (likewise), or fix your car (which also has a GPS "black box").  Think of the economic and social engineering benefits this system would have to governments around the world.  You could eliminate crime because you could track everyone and - more importantly - if someone does not have a chip, you have thermal and biometric scanners tied in to the RFID scanners that alert the authorities to an "anomaly".  Taxes cannot be avoided, and earnings and expenditures can be completely tracked.  "Under the table" cannot happen in a cashless society.  Illegal drugs can no longer be sold because how can you buy them without cash?  You can't escape nor cheat the system.  Anyone trying to hack it will run into redundancy checking probes that detect the hack, and of course all computer activity will be tracked so those trying to outsmart it will be dealt with severely.  Anonymity becomes non-existent.  Liberty dies.  Fear of "disordered" behavior coerces pacification of the population, because any minor infraction - of which all will commit at some point - can be used against you and they will know everything.  Blackmail and extortion become easy for those who know every little vice, every little sin, every little secret about you.  Do you really want your wife to know where you spent last night, and with whom?  Or how about those nasty words you said about your boss behind his back?  How about all those times you skirted the speed limit a few miles per hour - that adds up in fines you know, but we can ignore it if you cooperate with us.  A totalitarian, socialist dystopia is exactly what will result from this - Orwell's Big Brother come to life at last.

Of course, who in their right mind would accept such a society?  Who wouldn't resist it?  Look about you.  Look at the commercials from VISA where everyone is happily, blissfully, swiping their cards in a merry little dance, all in some synchronized almost orgiastic spasm of commercialism, then suddenly it all stops.  *Gasp* SOMEONE took out a check book or some cash!  All the formerly happy, blissful idiots now level accusing stares at the offending "freak".  Look at what Christmas has turned into.  All that's bandied about is how are retail profits and the economy doing.  Anyone remember that baby in the manger anymore?  They have "pay by touch" scanners at grocery lines now.  A friend of mine told me they went in several months back where he gets his food supplies.  Convenience will sell it to many, and coercion to the rest when the time comes.  How?  I can explain that too.

Look at the world's economies.  The US economy is on the brink of collapse.  I don't like to scare people, but it's true.  The US dollar is worth next to nothing, oil is becoming increasingly unaffordable, the housing market is non-existent, and when financial institutions as large as Citicorp require a foreign bail out to keep from collapsing, that's not good.  Add to this the specter of inflation - which is very real, they just don't like to include energy costs in it because it looks better on paper - and the fact that the "cheap labor" countries like China and India are industrializing, meaning they will no longer be cheap anymore, and the ever increasing amount of personal debt... Well, the higher you build a house of cards, the less it takes to knock it down.  I think the major economic powers know this.  I think they want it, too.  I think that, at some point, there will be a massive breakdown of the world's stock markets over some crisis, either real or engineered.  Then, someone will step forward, a man, a figurehead, once the misery reaches the right point where people will do anything just for a slice of bread to eat and to keep from freezing in the cold at night.  He will have The Solution.  He will bring forth the new plan for the world's economy, a fair plan, a plan where everyone is rewarded for their contributions, where everyone is given a job to do, and everyone can participate and not be left out in the cold.  All that is required is that they cooperate, and participate willingly.  He will come forth to help, but will need their help in return, will need your help in return.

If you think this is absurd, Adolph Hitler did the exact same thing in Germany, and his rise to power was meteoric.  Hitler was worshiped like a god by his most loyal followers, and hailed as a hero by the Germany of the day.  The truth is, if you subject people to enough misery for long enough they will beg for a solution - any solution - and they will look for a savior in all the wrong places.  So you see, it is possible, and the technology exists today for such a system to be implemented.  Not prior to today was there global communications, and massive computer processing capable of tracking everyone and permitting or forbidding ALL people from buying or selling.  The concept of the Mark of the Beast makes sense when the description in Revelation is compared against today's technology and what can be done with it.  I've done my best at observing the times and connecting the dots, and while I cannot say with certainty when this will happen, I can say this:  I know how governments think, and what they ultimately want.  I know how people behave when they are subjected to suffering.  I know that the economies of the world are inherently flawed and eventually doomed to utter failure at some point, and that the chief economic architects of the world will know this as well and already have a plan in place to replace the old, failing system once it's brought down.  To me it's only a matter of when this happens and what triggers it, not if.  All it will take is one nation to do something very stupid to set the whole thing off.  A coup in Saudi Arabia, or a nuclear exchange between Israel and Iran... One terrorist with a suitcase nuke in Tel Aviv could trigger a war that would crash the world's oil market, and everything else would follow like dominoes.

Of course I could be wrong, and I would rather be, but I see no way out of the box that the world has backed itself into.  Time is all you have, and I think not so much anymore.  I would hope that more people would understand that liberty is a precious gift bought with the blood of those willing to lay down their lives to buy it for others.  As long as governments are allowed by their citizenry to take away more and more liberty, the harder the fight to preserve what's left will become.
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scalliano
 

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« Reply #6 on: 2007-12-27, 01:54 »

Pho: I agree with every word you said except "socialist". I prefer to use the term "fascist". Slipgate - Wink

IMO things have already gone beyond the point of no return. City 17 is very much a reality right now. The only freedom that exists is that of the consumer. The freedom to buy stuff. That's why Christmas is so important now. Damn, I can't remember the last time anyone even sent me a Christmas card with anything religious on it.

Funnily enough, the Visa ad over here involves people doing things like buying a tea or coffee or getting on a train, but everything is wrapped up like a Christmas present (this ad is shown all year round, btw). How big a lie is that? What they forget to tell you is that you are still spending YOUR OWN MONEY. How is that a "gift"? It's all very "convenient" at the time, but once that credit card bill comes in, you won't be smiling anymore. You made an interesting statement about Citicorp who, as far as I'm aware, own(ed) Northern Rock plc who were actually bailed out by the British government a few months ago with taxpayer's money. The economy is slowing down, people are holding on to more of their hard-earned, meanwhile banks are agressively trying to persuade us to borrow more just so they can maintain their profits. As for me, I don't do debt, I save up for what I can't afford.

What saddens me is that, if the CIA and MI5 get their way, things can only get worse. Happy New Year, everyone. Sleep well.
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