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Author Topic: Can't believe IGN.  (Read 11965 times)
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Sucutrule
 

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« on: 2008-01-13, 19:08 »

http://bestof.ign.com/2007/xbox360/20.html

Really, was the fanboy service nessesary?

Saving, replaying and watching replays is not new.

A multiplayer map editor is not new.

I know it's for the Xbox 360, but really those features aren't innovative. Farcry had a map editor and it was for the original Xbox. And saving replays is the oldest gimmick in the game industry.

Really, IGN now has that horrible taste of fanboy website.

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Phoenix
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« Reply #1 on: 2008-01-13, 20:30 »

And this is why I don't read IGN.  It looks like they're kissing ass to Microsoft over Halo 3, but then Microsoft made the Xbox360 so... naturally you can't rate Microsoft's big budget sequel as anything but the greatest thing since sliced bread, right?  I wonder where their advertising dollars come from on IGN.  Hmm...  Here's a rant for you to back up what you're saying.

Every other review I've read about Halo3 is that it's a great game, but it's not necessarily innovative.  It's pretty standard FPS.  I've not played any of the Halo games, and I'm not out to knock them, but let me tear apart IGN's statements a little bit.


Quote
significant leaps forward in so many areas

Care to be more specific?

Quote
Saving, watching and sharing replays of entire levels are just the beginning

Funny, I remember doing this in DOOM...

Quote
There's also a multiplayer level editor and a meta-game that turns the co-operative mode into an intriguing competitive match

Hmm... level editors have been around since Wolfedit.  Coop being competitive?  I think Quake 2 kept track of score in coop.

Quote
Once again, Bungie has left the competition scrambling to catch up.

That's a fanboy statement there.  When was the first time Bungie left someone scrambling to catch up?  Hmm let's see... Id?  Nope.  Valve?  Nope.  Oh wait, we weren't including them were we?

If you want innovative, I can name a few things.  Portal is innovative.  Half-Life 2's HDR system is innovative.  I've heard a lot of Bioshock's gameplay elements are innovative.


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scalliano
 

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« Reply #2 on: 2008-01-13, 23:47 »

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Having played 1 and 2 at length and a reasonable bit into 3, none have impressed me in any way, shape or form. Bioshock has a lot of innovative elements (not least of all the game's overall theme), Portal was a joy to play (even though I finished it in one sitting) but Halo is just another example of budget over content. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a self-confessed Sony fanboy. The 360 has some ace games, it's just that for my money H3 isn't one of them.

I hate hype.
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« Reply #3 on: 2008-01-14, 08:24 »

Articles like this make me feel old.. None of this is revolutionary unless you started gaming with the release of the original xbox.

I've largely stopped hoping for games that can make me feel like I wasn't just robbed of $50 and 4-8 hours of my life.

Almost any time I see a title that receives some level of acclaim, it's hailed as groundbreaking, revolutionary, etc. And to be honest, very few of them are anything beyond derivative or hinge on a single gimmick.

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(/rant)

A gimmick, by itself, does not a game make. And ignoring everything that has come before just because it wasn't released this year doesn't do anyone any good.

Though I'm probably wrong there too, just look at how much Madden makes..
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Kain-Xavier
 

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« Reply #4 on: 2008-01-14, 09:42 »

I know it's for the Xbox 360, but really those features aren't innovative. Farcry had a map editor and it was for the original Xbox. And saving replays is the oldest gimmick in the game industry.

While I agree with you that Halo 3's Forge mode is not innovative, it's still uncommon in the console space.  Far Cry: Instincts, Crackdown, and Halo 3 are the only titles I can think of off-hand that have this kind of real-time, multi-player feature.

As for recording gameplay demos, can you think of any other console-based FPS that has this feature?  Furthermore, can you think of any console game that allowed you to send/receive these demos online?  Halo 3 is innovative in this regard because I can't think of a single title in the past that has done this.

Halo 3 is also a leader when it comes to online match-making.  Really, the only console-based FPS's I can think of that beat Halo 3 in terms of server customization are TimeSplitters 3, Unreal Championship 2, and Unreal Tournament 3.

I'm not agreeing with IGN's choice for most innovative design; in fact I dislike the Halo series.  I'm just saying that recognizing a popular game doesn't make you a "fanboy."  It wouldn't be popular if it wasn't doing something right.

One last thing...

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« Reply #5 on: 2008-01-14, 15:14 »

The fact that it's taken the console market 14 years to do what you could do easily on a PC game speaks volumes to me about how much lack of innovation there's been in the console market.  It seems that it's just over the last few years that someone's realized, hey, maybe the PC developers did something right?  That's why I've not owned a console since the Sega Genesis.  I want something more than just a video game machine, and the fact that I can't work the bloody controls on them.  Maybe if I had itty bitty fingers, but looking at a modern console controller there's no way I could get my talons around that and use it for anything more than a bludgeon.  Ranting about lack of avian-friendly ergonomics aside, I've just never understood why it is that console makers never thought to do this stuff that's been on the table for well over a decade on the PC side.  Maybe Halo3 is innovative because it's the first to actually do it, but making up for a deficiency well after the fact hardly seems innovative.  It's like finally remembering to put door handles on a car door after they've been on the market for years.

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Sucutrule
 

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« Reply #6 on: 2008-01-14, 18:28 »

Yeah, maybe on Consoles that's something new, but it's really a very poor excuse for being innovative. It's like saying a napkin is the most innovative napkin to date because it green or something.

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scalliano
 

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« Reply #7 on: 2008-01-14, 19:09 »

Angst: With regards Madden, FIFA, NHL, etc. there is always going to be a demand for updated stats/new kits/players/etc that sports game fans are always going to fork out for this year's update whether or not the game itself has been improved (I'm a Pro Evo fan so I don't count Slipgate - Tongue). Licensing has a lot to do with this, taking soccer as an example. FIFA has all the real team and player names and kits, whereas Pro Evo doesn't, so it is outsold by FIFA every year despite even by reviewers' standards being the better game.

The thing about the PC is that it's kind of like an expensive Merc. All the interesting bells, whistles and gadgets you find on a big Merc will end up on every other car ten years later. This comes down even to the fundamental things on consoles these days such as HD. The PC has been HD for more than ten years, it just wasn't called HD.

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« Reply #8 on: 2008-01-15, 03:48 »

Where the PC has always won over consoles is flexibility.  Sure you can play games on it, but you can also do such things as modding said games, writing, reading the news, communicating with others, buying and selling things online, hacking, viewing naughty material... the list goes on and on.  With the console, you could play games and just play games.  That's fine if that's all you want to do.  I think what's happened, and I think Microsoft and the Xbox probably gets some of the blame for this, is that consoles and PC's are converging a bit in terms of hardware and somewhat in terms of capabilities.  I think that's why you're seeing Carmack talking about multi-platform development so much when it was always PC first with Id.  I can understand this too.  If you're selling a game and you want it to be available on more than one market, you want it to look and play the same on everything so that everyone has the same experience.  It's also games that have driven the computer hardware market.  Nobody needed a 3dFX Voodoo card to run Excell.  They bought them to play Quake 2.  I don't think the console will ever replace the PC as a multi-function tool, nor do I think PC's will replace consoles as dedicated gaming systems for people who just want to play games, but I think you'll see more and more of consoles that can do some things that used to be exclusive to the PC as the result of this convergence.

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Rubilacxe
 
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« Reply #9 on: 2008-01-17, 18:54 »

I'm pleased to see such distaste towards the Halo series.  The games never caught on with me and I'm annoyed by the constant praise the games keep getting.  They claim to be so innovative, yet to me, all I see are blatant rip-offs of nearly every FPS that came before it.

Halo is only innovative and revolutionary in a console speaking sense (as some of you have touched on).  Its brought things already widely available on PC to the XBOX and the general console market (online deathmatch, now apparently map editing and demo recording).  Whoop-de-doo, good for you.  Those who aren't computer savy will be blown away, and the rest of us will be frowning.
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« Reply #10 on: 2008-01-18, 05:41 »

Um... I'm not sure but can other games let you pause and move your view around during a replay? That might be what they're talking about when they say "innovative"...

If not it blows that it had to be halo to introduce such a thing...
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Sucutrule
 

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« Reply #11 on: 2008-01-18, 16:06 »

Yeah, I know that map makers are "new" to consoles, those are just gimmicks to excuse a mediocre game. I actually espected something innovative like , say, GAMEPLAY. OR DESIGN. OR SOMETHING ACTUALLY IMPORTANT.
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scalliano
 

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« Reply #12 on: 2008-01-19, 05:47 »

Um... I'm not sure but can other games let you pause and move your view around during a replay?

Driver.

PS1.

Circa 1999.

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Kajet
 

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« Reply #13 on: 2008-01-19, 06:46 »

Ah, good... I dislike halo too much to want to admit it has something new
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« Reply #14 on: 2008-01-19, 17:28 »

I see alot Halo sucks here but tbh i do believe Halo 1 was actually good. at that time it brought Co-op play which almost doesnt exsist on PC anymore since PC is more to either SP or deatmatch type of games and MMORPGS.

With my IRL mate we had some rly good times with Halo.

In my opinion it doesnt matter if the game is to XBox 360,PS3, wii or PC i prefer to let the game talk for itself not taking side on what hardware it runs on.

However i do believe the "magic" that existed into Halo 1 was lost in the follow up and i have no idea how Halo 3 runs.

Also ppls who doesnt believe shoot em up works on a console should try metriod prime 3 to wii Slipgate - Smile
Tho i have to agree the mouse is a far better tool compared to the analogic sticks on the normal consoles like xbox/ps3 .
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Phoenix
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« Reply #15 on: 2008-01-19, 20:35 »

Coop play isn't dead on the PC, the developers just aren't writing it in.  I played OpenCoop for Doom 3 with Visimar a while back, and it was great fun.  Q2 had coop, Serious Sam is well known for its coop... there's games that have it, just not any new games featuring it out of the box.  I don't know why, whether they just don't want to bother writing it in or if it's not seen as a major selling point.  I'll take the easy route and blame marketing.
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scalliano
 

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« Reply #16 on: 2008-01-20, 05:06 »

It's not that I don't believe that FPS games work on console (try Black - highly recommended), it's just that consoles these days have USB mouse/keyboard support and yet practically no one is making use of them. The only exceptions I can think of are the PS2 ports of HL1 and UT (can't speak for the PS3 version of UT3 yet) and for me the developers are seriously missing a trick.

Oh yes, and the Dreamcast version of Q3.
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« Reply #17 on: 2008-01-20, 06:25 »

Coop is one of my favorite methods of play, but barely any games have it.  D3 didn't really run at playable rates on my old computer.  I've tried more than once to play through the single player on my current PC, but always end up encountering issues with stuttering and freezes.  I've gone through all the tweak guides with no luck.  Q4 did a very similar thing to the freezes I experienced in D3, but I was able to recover it without having to kill it.

Anyway, Q2 coop is one of my favorites.  "I beat the hell out of you all by myself'; this time I have friends, muahahaha".
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Phoenix
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« Reply #18 on: 2008-01-20, 09:27 »

Q2 coop is fun, so long as you don't get a Rambo in the squad.  I like having intuitive players who don't mind sharing a little ammo and actually pay attention to where everyone else is and stick together as a unit.  That's when it's fun because the Strogg don't stand a chance.  No fun when you get one idiot who wants to just charge and kill everything as quick as he can and not, well, cooperate with anyone else.

Now regarding Doom 3, I don't know what your hardware specs are, but I haven't experienced stuttering.  For reference, my specs are:

Opteron 175 Dualcore 2.2 GHz (overclocked to 2.6 GHz)
2x BFG GeForce 7600GT OC in SLI, 256 MB per card
1 GB PC3200 DDR
Windows XP Professional SP2
Latest video drivers

I can run Doom 3 at 1280x1024 with image_anisotropy 8, no multisamples, all the effects turned on, High quality, and maintain 60 FPS with vsync enabled except in a few spots with this configuration.  If your hardware's at least this good you should be able to play without any stuttering.
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« Reply #19 on: 2008-01-20, 20:31 »

Well, like I said, I can play q4 without a problem except the same freezes.  Basically what happens is the further I get into the game (regardless of whether it's a fresh boot -- which I usually have to do after playing the game for too long) the more often it freezes.  When it freezes, the screen goes black and doesn't come back.  I have to end the process.  In Q4 it does this as well, but it only lasts for maybe 30 seconds then I hear the sound come back.  So, while the screen is out, I bring down the console and carefully type in vid_restart which restores the video.  I could just ALT+Enter but then I have to wait twice as long to go back into full screen.  It's an irritating problem, and I don't know that there is a fix for it.  I tried straight off the DVD which ever version that was, and then I tried the latest patch some time later to give it another shot.  The patch definitely smoothed out some problems, but the major one still remained.  The further into it I got the more often they were happening, and having to end the process (creating that wonderful computer lag) every few minutes kills any interest in wanting to play.

Q4 was definitely a big leap forward in my eyes, since the game was entirely playable with the occasional freezing (but recoverable).

I have an opteron 165 (I've tried stock and my normal overclock -- same result).
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