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Phoenix
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Kain-Xavier
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:mellow: That is extremely sporked up. No good can come from this.
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games keeper
Elite
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boh , its something else then the electric chair , the rope or the bullet .
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
Team Member
Elite
 
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boh , its something else then the electric chair , the rope or the bullet . My limited understanding of broken english read that as: Bah, it's just something other than the electric chair, hanging, or firing-squad[for execution]. And I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with that, it's one thing to execute someone for actual crimes, but: ... not only is a suspected dissident arrested but also three generations of his family are imprisoned, to root out the bad blood and seed of dissent. Three generations. That's your grandfather, your father, and YOU because your grandfather said he didn't like the dictator's haircut, or because he recites the Lord's Prayer before bed. And this isn't execution, this is sadistic slaughter. 'An officer ordered me to select 50 healthy female prisoners,' she said. 'One of the guards handed me a basket full of soaked cabbage, told me not to eat it but to give it to the 50 women. I gave them out and heard a scream from those who had eaten them. They were all screaming and vomiting blood. All who ate the cabbage leaves started violently vomiting blood and screaming with pain. It was hell. In less than 20 minutes they were quite dead.' 20 minutes.. TWENTY MINUTES of excruciating pain before dying. I'll take the chair, the rope, or the bullet over that ANY day... |
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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Woodsman
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10 bucks says you wont see any europeans protesting this.
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shambler
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I am a european and i thing you will find that the guardian is a british paper. the clue is in the co.uk part of the address. we brits (I am Welsh myself) wrote the article for you to read.
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
Team Member
Elite
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It's a bit of a mix-up I'd imagine. Plenty of Europeans protest these dictatorships. The controversy over Iraq is simply because a number of countries in Europe were negotiating with Saddam for oil. And now that the US/etc. have more or less kicked his ass, they're having a fit because they no longer have the opportunity to get oil cheap. The PROBLEM with this, is they insist on flinging propaganda around and are trying to use the UN as leverage in this. No country can afford to politically admit that they've been dealing with a dictator, so they're looking for any scapegoat they can.
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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Woodsman
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no! i want you to protest in the streets! complete with stupid signs and chants!!! :angry:
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« Last Edit: 2004-02-04, 19:29 by Woodsman »
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Devlar
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No country can afford to politically admit that they've been dealing with a dictator, so they're looking for any scapegoat they can. *cough*Saudi Arabia?*cough* Kuwait?*cough*Indonesia?*cough*China?*cough*Pakistan?*cough* Sorry, I think I'm getting a cold or something... Honestly though you are quite correct on the politicians protesting the Iraqi conflict, the people on the other hand had a considerably different view of why this war should or should not have happened The PROBLEM with this, is they insist on flinging propaganda around and are trying to use the UN as leverage in this. Actually the UN simply did what its mandate has been since its inception, prevent the agression of one state against another. Irregardless of whether or not you agree with that stance. The problem ultimately lies in the fact that conflicts in this day and age are not clear cut along sovereign territorial boundaries (granted the US invasion of Iraq was cleary an act of agression), war these days tends to be internal, tends to be ethnic and tends to disregard governments or boundaries of any kind. As Joseph Nye in his book "The Paradox of American Power" put it, we have seen the privatization of war, and the inability of any organization or state to effciently deal with it. I personally would favour a new world order based on limited sovereignty as long as it is equal for all countries, but as long as the United States, Russia and China are around that will not be a possibilty |
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Lilazzkicker
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Lets maintain the topic here, we dont need another bash the US thread.
<_<
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Devlar
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But its just so easy when your politicians act the way they do http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/As for North Korea, its really not surprising, but then Sadam was a bigger threat right? Makes me wonder what would have happened if the national export from Iraq was Cabbage. Would they even have bothered? Most likely no, and both Iraq and North Korea would remain intact. Instead we have one group gassing their civilians and another being shot by American troops (22 a day on average). Its a beautiful world |
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Devlar
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I personally blame the government for this.
We live in an anti-ceptic world now where wars look like video games, freedom of speech doesn't exist because the things about war that they should be showing cannot be shown, blame the FCC and the CRTC. Its about controling what you see and hear, yet sadly, you are not in the Outer Limits. The dead and mangled bodies, cannot be shown, the conduct and behaviour of the soldiers cannot be shown (they are profane to say the least) and the mental impact of war cannot be shown. All that's left is simple stupid sensationalization regardless of the angle.
The CBC this year ran a story called "The Uncensored War in Iraq" They got in trouble for it from the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television Council) because it was "graphic and disturbing". Maybe that's what this world needs is a mild reality check on "graphic and disturbing"
Oh and Phoenix, I agree in Limited Sovereignty. I agree in dealing with individuals/governments/groups that participate in genocidal acts, but the thing is, it has to apply to everyone. That means if the US farms out its prisoners for the purposes of torture they should be held just as accountable as those who actually do the torture. It has to be a level playing field not one tilted toward the US
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« Last Edit: 2004-02-06, 22:07 by Devlar »
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Lilazzkicker
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I read a report not to long ago, talking about the numbers of wars and deaths through history, suprisingly, these last 50-100 years have had fewer deaths and and wars then at any other time in history, amazing.
Now if i can find the link, i will post it asap.
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Devlar
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Cold War anyone?
Also even if you factor in WW1 and WW2, per capita deaths in wars have been relatively few
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Hedhunta
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I personally blame the government for this.
We live in an anti-ceptic world now where wars look like video games, freedom of speech doesn't exist because the things about war that they should be showing cannot be shown, blame the FCC and the CRTC. Its about controling what you see and hear, yet sadly, you are not in the Outer Limits. The dead and mangled bodies, cannot be shown, the conduct and behaviour of the soldiers cannot be shown (they are profane to say the least) and the mental impact of war cannot be shown. All that's left is simple stupid sensationalization regardless of the angle.
The CBC this year ran a story called "The Uncensored War in Iraq" They got in trouble for it from the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television Council) because it was "graphic and disturbing". Maybe that's what this world needs is a mild reality check on "graphic and disturbing"
Oh and Phoenix, I agree in Limited Sovereignty. I agree in dealing with individuals/governments/groups that participate in genocidal acts, but the thing is, it has to apply to everyone. That means if the US farms out its prisoners for the purposes of torture they should be held just as accountable as those who actually do the torture. It has to be a level playing field not one tilted toward the US at first i misinterpreted what you said and was going to argue that this is because they dont want the whole vietnam syndrome to happen again(soldiers coming home and being spat on etc) ... but then i read it again and realised that you are absolutely correct in that they do it only for sensationalism and for ratings not caring for anything but their wallets.. |
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MaxAstro
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In this world, there is such a thing as the cold, hard truth. And it's generally not what anyone wants it to be. So why bother showing it to anyone? Anything that is true is going to offend someone. So why bother telling the truth at all? Fill everyone up with sugary sweet half-truths and fantasy, leave no-one with any time to ask questions, and for God's sake don't let anyone get bored; bored people have time to think for themselves. [/sarcasm]
If you ask me, people need to be offended. People need to be violently offended on a daily basis. Especially by the cold reality of things, by the things they don't want to face. If no-one is allowed to be offended, people will go out of their way to not be offended or say something possibly offencive. And that's how people in power get away with stuff like this.
Reccomended Reading:
Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
If this book doesn't paint an accurate picture of where US society is headed, I don't know what does.
Night by Ellie Wiesel
Be offended. Be very offended. Otherwise, what's to stop stuff like this from happening again?
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
Okay, not a book. Still. Play the game. Pay good attention to the story. Especially listen to the speeches by the Patriots and Snake at the end. VERY true, both of them. Granted, the Patriots had completely the wrong idea, but they make some good points.
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Devlar
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If you ask me, people need to be offended. People need to be violently offended on a daily basis. Especially by the cold reality of things, by the things they don't want to face. If no-one is allowed to be offended, people will go out of their way to not be offended or say something possibly offencive. And that's how people in power get away with stuff like this.
John Stuart Mills would be proud |
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