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Author Topic: Don't do drugs kids...  (Read 31481 times)
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #60 on: 2004-03-25, 07:00 »

Private Property = Drugs
Government taking property -> Bad
That's how we got where we are
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Phoenix
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« Reply #61 on: 2004-03-25, 08:29 »

That's why little kids should be allowed to own rocket launchers and heavy machineguns, too!
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #62 on: 2004-03-25, 08:41 »

Someone has to protect liberty, if they don't have parents with those heavy machine guns then most likely they should. Plus its not as if it matters to you, you can just sit back and let everything sort itself out
« Last Edit: 2004-03-25, 08:45 by Devlar » Logged
Phoenix
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« Reply #63 on: 2004-03-25, 09:42 »

You confuse patience with inaction.  I am very patient.  That does not mean that I am doing nothing.  To the contrary, I work to better this world in my own ways.  I also trust that the power that made this world and set things in motion knows what it's doing in the long term.

We are also off topic yet again, so please dispense with the personal digs.
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« Reply #64 on: 2004-03-25, 16:10 »

Quote from: Phoenix
The system exists because people need and want order to their society
Need? Absolutely not.
Want? Hardly.

Anarchy is only chaotic in the minds of those who define order as government.
« Last Edit: 2004-03-25, 18:08 by dev/null » Logged
Woodsman
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« Reply #65 on: 2004-03-25, 16:25 »

wait was devlar just defending gun ownership or was he being a male reproductive organ?
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #66 on: 2004-03-25, 19:13 »

Don't back-peddle on my account

The government should never be able to take your property unless you freely give it, that includes drugs
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Phoenix
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« Reply #67 on: 2004-03-25, 20:52 »

And don't try to goad me into taking the thread off-topic again with personal attack rhetoric.

The government has a job to regulate hazardous substances.  Drugs are hazardous.  Anyone who thinks Cocaine or PCP isn't dangerous is an idiot.  The government also regulates prescription drugs and determines what is safe for human consumption and what is not.  Certain chemicals are extremely dangerous, addictive, or both.  Regulating the availability and useage of such things is in the interest of protecting the public good.  Like it or not, that IS one of government's functions.  Although the execution of that function is usually somewhat questionable there are reasons for laws against drugs to exist and frankly I'm glad they do.  I've seen how they destroy lives.  A very good friend of mine has a cousin who lives in poverty and squallor because of constant drug use and a druggie alcoholic husband who spends more time in jail than out.  She's also on welfare and WIC to take care of her two kids, so that means she's on the public dole and can't get off.  All this "private property" rhetoric is lack of sense in action and a complete reality disconnect.  I invite you to visit a crackhouse some time to see what it's really like to be hooked on this garbage.  Drugs enslave you, and control you, and rule your life once you get hooked.  This fact is irrefutable to anyone who's actually dealt with drug addicts or been one themself.

Personally I wish alcohol was regulated a lot more.  I've seen what drunk drivers do to people, and while the hard drugs may destroy your life quicker alcohol does it legally.
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #68 on: 2004-03-25, 21:43 »

We restrict the freedom of many due to the stupidity of the few, GREAT IDEA!
And here simple little me thought that collective punishment was a human rights violation

People have choices to make in life, if they chose the wrong ones they should have to live with the consequences of their own actions. If they want to become junkies that's their initial choice to do the drug, and its their choice not to seek help for their problem. You cannot punish the whole of society for that, nor should you even have the authority to do so.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #69 on: 2004-03-25, 22:32 »

The problem is when the actions are no longer just self-destructive.  Their family, their children, people they rob and murder for drug money... all of this is connected.  No man is an island, and there are no victimless crimes.
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #70 on: 2004-03-26, 00:26 »

Which is why they have their family and their friend to help ensure that they don't get on drugs, or to help them get off if they get in too deep into drugs
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death_stalker
 

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« Reply #71 on: 2004-03-26, 06:15 »

It's not as easy as you say.I had a family member hooked on coke.He would sell our belongings,steal and lie to get it.We all tried our hardest to get him off it,but no matter what we did he continued to snort it.They become a differant person and will not listen to reason.We need the government regulations on these drugs and the dealers need to be punished.They need to be taken by force,because thier sure as hell not gonna just hand it over.Those heavy drugs kill,and mess up other lives.I've been through it personally,and the thought of those dealers having any of the rights you mentioned is absurd!
      As for the comment on collective punishment and violation of human rights.So it doesn't matter if someone's killed by a drunk driver or shot by an illegal firearm,or drugs for that matter.That's what these laws are trying to prevent.It happens-they make law to prevent from happening again!    

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SkyNet
 
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« Reply #72 on: 2004-03-26, 07:41 »

You puny humans and your drugs. You just make yourselves slow and weak; drugged humans are easier targets. You will be terminated.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #73 on: 2004-03-26, 07:43 »

You know, all along I've been thinking of this in moral terms when I should have been thinking of this from a tactical standpoint.  Skynet is right.  Stoners make easy prey!  Woot!
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #74 on: 2004-03-26, 09:36 »

Quote
That's what these laws are trying to prevent.It happens-they make law to prevent from happening again!
Yet countries with little to no drug control have the smallest drug related crimes. The second you take out the prohibitive appeal of drugs people seem to lose interest in doing them

If your family cannot control your actions, and they lie and steal from you then what are the chances that the government, which is an impersonal entity, will have better chances?
You lost the war on drugs and hurt your people because of it, while most of the rest of the world stop treating it like a major problem and won
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Lilazzkicker
 

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« Reply #75 on: 2004-03-26, 16:51 »

I would not call turning a blind eye to a problem a win...
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dev/null
 
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« Reply #76 on: 2004-03-26, 18:28 »

Quote from: death_stalker
It's not as easy as you say.I had a family member hooked on coke.He would sell our belongings,steal and lie to get it.We all tried our hardest to get him off it,but no matter what we did he continued to snort it.They become a differant person and will not listen to reason.We need the government regulations on these drugs and the dealers need to be punished.They<drugs> need to be taken by force,because thier sure as hell not gonna just hand it over.Those heavy drugs kill,and mess up other lives<as stated above>.I've been through it personally,and the thought of those dealers having any of the rights you mentioned is absurd!
      As for the comment on collective punishment and violation of human rights.So it doesn't matter if someone's killed by a drunk driver or shot by an illegal <or legal> firearm,or drugs for that matter.That's what these laws are trying to prevent.It happens-they make law to prevent from happening again!
Hmmm... How about the people who are actually doing the drugs take person responsibility for their actions? Huh? Oh, yes, I forgot... Americans... A scapegoat is always needed. Let's blame the dealers, or the drugs themselves for our problems. Let's blame firearms or the manufactures, because hey, those substances and bullets simply force their way into your body with magic, don't they? No human aid, what so ever.

The simple fact of the matter is that these problems are solely the fault of the ones taking the drugs. If they had any intelligence, or will power, they would either be able to control themselves or would not have begun in the first place. Such people are pitiful specimens of the human race with or without questionable substances, and the fact that they die is merely a small piece of natural selection that is still intact in this horrid civilization. If we were not all raised to be stupid is this cultureless society, such laws would not have to be in place to "protect" us.
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dna
 
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« Reply #77 on: 2004-03-26, 19:45 »

Quote from: dev/null
Quote from: death_stalker
It's not as easy as you say.I had a family member hooked on coke.He would sell our belongings,steal and lie to get it.We all tried our hardest to get him off it,but no matter what we did he continued to snort it.They become a differant person and will not listen to reason.We need the government regulations on these drugs and the dealers need to be punished.They<drugs> need to be taken by force,because thier sure as hell not gonna just hand it over.Those heavy drugs kill,and mess up other lives<as stated above>.I've been through it personally,and the thought of those dealers having any of the rights you mentioned is absurd!
      As for the comment on collective punishment and violation of human rights.So it doesn't matter if someone's killed by a drunk driver or shot by an illegal <or legal> firearm,or drugs for that matter.That's what these laws are trying to prevent.It happens-they make law to prevent from happening again!
Hmmm... How about the people who are actually doing the drugs take person responsibility for their actions? Huh? Oh, yes, I forgot... Americans... A scapegoat is always needed. Let's blame the dealers, or the drugs themselves for our problems. Let's blame firearms or the manufactures, because hey, those substances and bullets simply force their way into your body with magic, don't they? No human aid, what so ever.

The simple fact of the matter is that these problems are solely the fault of the ones taking the drugs. If they had any intelligence, or will power, they would either be able to control themselves or would not have begun in the first place. Such people are pitiful specimens of the human race with or without questionable substances, and the fact that they die is merely a small piece of natural selection that is still intact in this horrid civilization. If we were not all raised to be stupid is this cultureless society, such laws would not have to be in place to "protect" us.
I don't really care if they die - it's who they take with them before they go.
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #78 on: 2004-03-26, 20:52 »

Quote
I don't really care if they die - it's who they take with them before they go.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."  
Benjamin Franklin

Punishing the whole for the mistakes of the few is never the answer. Its amazing how you can fear drug addicts but not fear the state in taking away your life or your liberty. As Phoenix so facetiously pointed out, drug addicts are considerably less organized therefore less of a threat.

If you have a problem with who they take with them before they die then improve the living conditions in your country so no one wants to use drugs as a form of escapism. Putting these people (yes, drug addicts are people) into holding cells for the rest of their lives and branding them as criminals only adds to the problem, it doesn't solve it. In that regard I totally agree with dev/null.

We live in a society that creates needs, creates needs for consumer goods, creates needs to a ton of shit we don't need and degrades people for not fulfilling those artificial needs. You are not a human being unless you need a job, you need a house, you need a 300 horsepower car, you need a girlfriend with big titties, you need massive electric sexual devices and an assortment of other crap that is of absolutely no use to you. Are we overly surprised that people want to escape this with drugs and alcohol?
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dna
 
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« Reply #79 on: 2004-03-26, 21:43 »

Quote from: Devlar
Quote
I don't really care if they die - it's who they take with them before they go.

 Its amazing how you can fear drug addicts but not fear the state in taking away your life or your liberty. As Phoenix so facetiously pointed out, drug addicts are considerably less organized therefore less of a threat.

...

We live in a society that creates needs, creates needs for consumer goods, creates needs to a ton of shit we don't need and degrades people for not fulfilling those artificial needs. You are not a human being unless you need a job, you need a house, you need a 300 horsepower car, you need a girlfriend with big titties, you need massive electric sexual devices and an assortment of other crap that is of absolutely no use to you. Are we overly surprised that people want to escape this with drugs and alcohol?
Who said I wasn't?  But I've come closer to having either taken away by the crazed drug addict than the State has ever gotten.  Guess who's higher up on my list?

And please don't bring up the "pressures of society."  If you can't tune out advertising, spork you and good ridence - please continue to kill yourself with drugs, et al, and stop polluting the genetic make-up of humanity.
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