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Author Topic: Mr. Ignoramus (Beware of Truth)  (Read 24386 times)
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Moshman
 
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« on: 2005-06-24, 06:13 »

Mr. Ignoramus
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   Host: Host of a morning talk radio show.
   Mr. Ignoramus: Represents the general scientific community.

Host: In proverbs 24:21 the Bible clearly tells us that we?re not to meddle, with anything that are given to change, yet that is all we see going on around us, is change here, change there, well, everywhere a change change. Today I got with me, Dr Ph.D Ignoramus. Hello Dr. Ignoramus.

Mr. Ignoramus: Hello there!

Host: How you going today

Mr. Ignoramus: I?m great today!

Host: That?s wonderful. You know what amazes me is the fact, Dr. Ignoramus, is scientists can?t even tell us what happened yesterday, let alone 30 million years ago. You know you used to tell us that the earth was a flat disk, but all along the Bible has said the earth is a sphere, it?s round, according to Isaiah 40:22. What does science now say?

Mr. Ignoramus: Well science now states that the earth is a sphere.

Host: Okay so you made some mistakes, some ignorant mistakes perhaps.

Mr. Ignoramus: Yes, we have made many ignorant mistakes, because we were ignorant to the fact that the Bible was always correct, heh.

Host: Science then said we only has 1,100 stars, ah, now Mr. Ignoramus, how in the heck, did you come up the fact that we had 1,100 stars, when the Bible has always said that there is an infinite amount of stars, according to Jeremiah 33:22.

Mr. Ignoramus: Well again, we just didn?t really want to believe the bible, and we thought we knew everything, and just tried to count them all, and we just kept losing our spot.

Host: Now according to you, you defiantly lost your spot on this next subject, science said that the earth, sat on a large animal. (snickers) Well, I?m not trying to be disrespectful Mr. Ignoramus but where in the heck did you come up with the fact that the earth sat on a large animal? Again the bible clearly says free float of the earth in space and hangs over nothing according to Job 26:7.

Mr. Ignoramus: Well, it?s like this, we just thought that everybody---

Host: Whoa, excuse me sir, you kind of ?thought? alot didn?t you?

Mr. Ignoramus: We thought a whole lot actually, we thought, is that everybody has got to get around on something, so, you know, thought the earth got around on an animal.

Host: Wow.

Mr. Ignoramus: Yeah

Host: Must have been a big one. Now you are aware of the fact that George Washington was actually bled to death because you said if they bled him, that the sickness would actually leave his body. You know science then told us sick people must be bled, yet the Bible has always declared that blood is the source of life and health, according to Leviticus 17:11, Dr. Ignoramus, what do you think about that?

Mr. Ignoramus: Well you know again---

Host: I don?t know if I should ask you what you think, but what are your findings today?

Mr. Ignoramus: Well our findings state that someone needs their blood to survive, and you know back then we just thought that the illness was in the blood, so we just took it all out, and that was what we did, and found out that people kept dying and we thought it was because of disease instead of the blood draining thing.

Host: Now Dr. Ignoramus why do you guys continuously change, because again the Bible says we?re not to meddle with those that are given to change, where do you guys stop the point of changing things that are already declared in the word of God?

Mr. Ignoramus: Well, the thing is that we just, you know---

Host: Could you get that stupid look off your face when you talk to me please?

Mr. Ignoramus: Well, it?s hard because my name?s Ignoramus, but ahh, we just you know try to prove the Bible wrong as much as possible so we didn?t have to give into any account to anybody.

Host: Now, why is that?

Mr. Ignoramus
Well, ah, if we can prove there isn?t a god we don?t have to be accountable to nobody, and we?re the center of the universe an ah---

Host: So that?s idolatry.

Mr. Ignoramus: That?s exactly right, but again you know---

Host: Oh?I get you. I got a couple more that I wanna ask you. You said that science back then, that the floor of the ocean was flat, yet the Bible has always declared again that the ocean contains deep valleys and mountains according to 2nd Samuel 22:16 and Jonah 2:6.

Mr. Ignoramus: Well we just had to be consistent in our theories, we said that the world was flat, so---

Host: What do you think that the world will just fall for this stuff hook line and sinker Mr. Ignoramus?

Mr. Ignoramus: They absolutely did for hundreds of years.

Host: Isn?t that something?

Mr. Ignoramus: Yeah.

Host: They just don?t do their homework do they?

Mr. Ignoramus: No, heh.

Host: You know, now that I think about that, I was talking to the social security administrator guy last week, and when I was talking to him I said to him
?Sir, how long have you been working here?? and he said,
?20 Years.?
I said,
?Did you know that it is not mandatory that we have a social security number??
And he was totally taken back. He said,
?I have been working here for 20 years; I have been doing that of what I?m being told. I have never at one time seen the law. Wow.? I said,
?Thank you very much for being honest sir, I hope you learned something from this.? and Mr. Ignoramus the things you?ve been telling us, about changing things constantly, they?re contrary to the word of God.

Mr. Ignoramus: Well the thing is---

Host:  And the fact is, people call you Mr. Ignoramus, is because you don?t get it, we?re not to be given to those that are given to change, yet you continuously want to change things. And you expect the people to believe your fibbish, fabbish, fibbishing lies.

Mr. Ignoramus: Well the thing, and the fact of the matter is, if people would read the law of God like that gentleman who didn?t that you talked to at the social security office, would find that, we?ve been wrong for a loooong time.

Host: Yeah as a matter of fact?. you almost sounded like a horse there Mr. Ignoramus. Did you know that you also told us science then that oceans were only feed by rivers and rain? Yet the bible says that oceans contain springs according to Job 38:16. Oh and also you told us that, science then of course again, hands washed in still water, yet the Bible tells us when dealing with disease hand should be washed under running water, Leviticus 15:13.

Mr. Ignoramus: Well like I said before---

Host: I think there comes a point sir, when you just gotta say, ?You need to shut your mouth.?

Mr. Ignoramus: Well you know ahhh ehhmm????..

Host: Bye bye now Mr. Ignoramus

Mr. Ignoramus: *babble

[Exit Mr. Ignoramus]

Host: Bye bye now. Did you know when the FBI does actually does find counterfeit bills, they can spot them a mile away because they study the real ones. And so it is with us. We might sit back and look at Mr. Ignoramus but guess what? Mr. Ignoramus is the one we?ve been listening to for a long time. We need to get back into the Word, and see what the Word says, so we can find the counterfeits and so that we can expose the Mr. Ignoramuses in this world.

Truth from Experience not from Opinion
Truth from experience, many teens feel that their parents and the older generation can?t relate and don?t understand them. Well, rightfully so. How can I tell you what it?s like to jump out of an airplane if I?ve never jumped? I can have all the mathematical statistics and formulas, but if I haven?t experience from my stomach and my throat from the fall, it doesn?t have the same effect. The truth is related to you from experience, not from opinion. The Apostle Paul only preached from experience with demonstrations of the sprit, so that people faith would be found in the power of God and not in the wisdom of man.

Your Beliefs doesn?t Change Reality
We are all apart of the ultimate statistic that 10 out of 10 people will die. There are many things in the world that you probably don?t believe in. Well do you believe in trucks, guns and even the wind? You are probably thinking to yourself, ?Well of course I do.? Well that would be an insult to say that you don?t. Psalms 14:1 says that ?The fool said in their heart that ?there is no god?? You may say, ?Well, I?ve never seen god. You?ve never seen the wind either but you?ve seen the effects of the wind. Read Romans 1:18-20. It?s like this, if you put a gun to my head and say, ?I?m gonna blow your brains out.? And I reply, ?Well go ahead I don?t believe in the bullets.? If you pull the trigger, people are going to be able to read my mind literally. Just because I don?t believe in bullets, doesn?t change reality. Just because you don?t believe God, doesn?t mean he doesn?t exist. Romans 1:18-20 says ?The wraith of God abides by you and you are without excuse.?

Do You have to See Him to Believe him?
One day a 11 year old girl was sitting in the classroom. The teacher was going to explain evolution on this day. Asked the little boy,
?Tommy, do you see the tree outside??
Tommy replied,
?Well, yes.?
The teacher asked the question,
?Tommy, do you see the grass outside??
Tommy replied again,
?Yes.?
The teacher told Tommy,
?Go outside and see if you can see the sky.?
Tommy said,
?Okay.?
He returned a few minutes later,
?Yes, I saw the sky teacher.?
Teacher then asked another question,
?Did you see God??
Tommy said,
?No I didn?t see God.?
The teacher then said,
?That?s my point, we can?t see God, because he isn?t there, because he doesn?t exist. The little girl then spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl asked the question,
?Tommy, do you see the tree??
Tommy said,
?Yes.?
The little girl asked the question,
?Tommy, do you see the grass outside??
Tommy said,
?Yes.? Getting tired of answering the same questions.
The little girl asked,
?Did you see the sky.?
Tommy again said,
?yeeeesss!?
The little girl said,
?Tommy do you see the teacher??
Tommy said,
?Yes.?
The little girl said,
?Do you see her brain??
Tommy said,
?No.?
The little girl said,
?Then according to what we were taught today in school, she must not have one.?
The Bible says in John 20:29, ?Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.?



Day of Salvation

Satan stood amidst all his cohorts, demons, imps and the such asking the question, ?What can I do to deceive the people further?? Just then Satan had the idea to reward the one that can come up with the new deception by giving him all that he would desire. Soon a demon glided up to Satan and said,
?I know what I can do to deceive the people further.?
?What!?? said Satan with a loud groaning anticipation.
?I can tell the people that there is no god.?
?No,? said Satan with a loud voice, ?you fool, man knows within himself that there is a creator, for creation itself testifies of this very truth.?
Soon, another approached Satan and said,
?I can deceive the people by telling them that they evolved from monkeys.?
Satan with a loud voice, reprimanded this one by saying,
?There is none so foolish amongst God?s creation that believes such foolishness. Are there none here that are better at deceiving the people then those that have approached me? I thought to myself that I have taught you better then that.?
One more glided up from the back with a smile on his face, confidently approaching his Father of Lies saying,
?I will tell these created beings of the most high that there is more time.?
And this is the rewarded demon that went forth to deceive mankind by telling them,
?You still have tomorrow.?
Guys, girls: today is the day of salvation, because you are not promised tomorrow.

Atheists

What about the atheist? To them they call themselves atheists, ?The fool said in their heart ?there is no god?? they are corrupt, they have done abominable works, ?There is none that doeth good.? In Psalm 14:1. One doesn?t have to believe in semi trucks, but if you stand in front of one, it going to run right over you. So it is with God?s judgment for those who don?t repent.

What about those who say, ?You know, what, I believe in evolution.? Well, to those who believe in the theory of evolution, Dr. Kent Hovind, http://www.drdino.com , has a standing offer for those who can prove this willful ignorance; he will give that person $250,000 that can prove the theory of evolution. Now, again, feel free to go to drdino.com, if you want to give it a whirl, the offer is still standing, it will ever stand, evolution is the oldest form of idolatry known to mankind, if anyone thinks that willful ignorance is going to win them into a state of bliss with God, they can forget it. So then ?every one of us shall give an account to God of themselves? Romans 14:12. Atheism and evolution are two topics not worth refuting to me, every man knows within himself that there is a god in heaven, God will teach these on that final day, and if that is the case, it will be too late. Now, just to prove my point, on how ridiculous it is, every theory that man has brought about, first of all evolution is brought about by those that claimed or laid the foundation of evolution, which is nothing new under the sun, but the fact is those who came up with evolution said ?It didn?t fit their sexual lifestyle.? Well let?s go though with that of which is being taught in public schools, another thing to keep in mind before I get going here is the fact that evolution and communism go hand in hand. See, if you?re taught there is no god, then, guess who becomes God? That?s right, the acting government. Let?s go to what they are teaching in high school books today on evolution.

Now the Heddlebird man, built from a jawbone that was conceded by many to be quite human, now Nebraska man, scientifically built up from one tooth, was later found out to be the tooth of an extinct pig. Tapiltro man, that the jawbone turned out to belong to a modern ape, Peking man 5,000 years old, all evidence has disappeared, (how convenient) Nathandro man, at the international conference of zoology, 1958 Dr. A. J. Ekaine said examinations showed that the famous Nathandro skeleton found in France over 50 years ago, is of an old man who suffered from arthritis. Hmm. Kaomagma man one of the earliest and best established fossils is equal in physic and brain capacity to modern man. So what?s the difference? Modern man, this genius thinks we came from monkey, in Romans 1:22 it says:
?Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.?
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 06:17 by Little Washu » Logged

Woodsman
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« Reply #1 on: 2005-06-24, 06:58 »

That was long.
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« Reply #2 on: 2005-06-24, 09:15 »

Quite long, and certainly very opinionated.  I'll reserve comment for now so that others may discuss if they so choose.
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« Reply #3 on: 2005-06-24, 10:21 »

No offense but, wow, that's a bit too long to read at 4 am. I'll have to finish it later.
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« Reply #4 on: 2005-06-24, 10:31 »

Words.

They can be made to prove anything.
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« Reply #5 on: 2005-06-24, 11:16 »

What Dr. Kent Hovind said is we only have suffered micro-evolutions? I think that the Human evolution has been proved. The Human skeleton has obvious resemblences to the monkey skeleton, and our changes only happened (in my point of view) due to DNA irregularities that happened in the formation of the new life form, that only happened because that specie needed to change in order to survive.

Quote
?Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.?

This one made me laugh. So if we do not try to discover new stuff, we will be wise. If I do remember, the Cathlic (is the word correct?) Church even created a thing called Inquisition, so that people would be ignorant, allowing them to manipulate the populations according to their theories. People like Galileo, who proved that the Earth rotated on itself and around the Sun, were called idiots and were killed or putted in exile. And I think that it was absurd that they didn't accept new discoveries, since it delayed the expansion of knowlege in a lot of countries. My oppinion is : Refusing knowlege is refusing evolution. By conserving the knowlege of centuries ago, the mentality of a person equals the mentality of a person of centuries ago. By accepting new discoveries, a person can evolve in terms of knowlege and mentality. For you see we have reached this point because we needed to evolve in order not only to survive, but to make sure that our survival in kept.
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 11:17 by [KruzadeR] » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: 2005-06-24, 14:34 »

Washu:
This is exactly what I expected it to be. Sure, sure, they are the fools, not the ones who stop questioning the selective content and childish presentation in such texts.
Everyone creates their own understanding of 'truth' - (some of us are aware of our own  possible and probable fallibility in this) - yours is scary to me, and if this kind of text fits in with it, I begin to understand your statements in earlier postings. I will not comment on it further, because a) I don't intend to insult (even if I have in the past) and b) pretty much anything I type will be ignored by the active part of your brain anyway. ( - or selectively filtered)

In the face of a 'blunt instrument' such as this, I'll just sit back and try to let go - which, strangely,  is hard for me. It would explain why I kept typing these last few weeks. Part of me desires to find at least the smallest base of agreement with everyone (at least on the WH boards), I expect; the natural way for anyone who wants to seriously discuss something, and start from somewhere that can be explored with a shared understanding. I have never in my life talked to anyone where this couldn't eventually be worked out according to my general conception of 'agreement' - so this is a first, and perhaps a shock, although in retrospect it's rather odd I didn't run into something like it earlier. Anyway, it's been interesting and good material to take with me when I get my study of philosophy started next year.

While I said it before, now I say it again with a better understanding of my own motives: I'm signing off. I will no longer be provoked by your often rude wording and single-mindedness. I'll stop trying to work something out that I know will not give me what I'm looking for and what you don't want to look for.

Which leaves me curious for other responses in this thread..
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 14:39 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #7 on: 2005-06-24, 15:34 »

Slipgate - Off Topic
I'm dumb and have not figured out how to change my title yet.

Please, someone tell me how to sort this. I AM dumb as I can't see the button.  (actually I'm a real dyslexic, and to me words don't even look like words until I conscentrate on them to decode. They just look like patterns and often get over looked.)
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« Reply #8 on: 2005-06-24, 15:43 »

Quote
I will no longer be provoked by your often rude wording and single-mindedness.

So I spend 5 hours yesterday just to get insulted. Freaking sad. What do you want? That hurt Tab, alot.  Slipgate - Sad
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 15:44 by Little Washu » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: 2005-06-24, 15:48 »

That was not an intended unsult, it was an observation. The fact alone that you select that sentence from my post, disregard the rest and consider it an insult just enhances the point I was trying to make.. :]

Oh, you've edited it: Again, I'm sorry to see it hurt, but I still don't understand why. There is a very single-minded theme in this kind of post, I'm sure that doesn't come as a shock to you? Also it seems obvious that the way you describe people who disagree with you is often rude and sometimes crude. Maybe mine has been too, for a while - but I have merely been trying to mirror the way you make your points.
But I digress. I'm did not merely try to insult, and if that's the message you filter out of it, that is insulting in return.
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 15:53 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #10 on: 2005-06-24, 15:49 »

your a christian arent you washu ?
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Moshman
 
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« Reply #11 on: 2005-06-24, 15:58 »

Grrr.....
 What point does it enhance? That I have a selective brain? I freaking don't ignore everything. I read the whole thing, but when I write, esp. when I am called single-minded, I get overrun with feeling, and I can't stop it. And I just write. I'll try harder next time. But really I can't help it sometimes.

« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 16:12 by Little Washu » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: 2005-06-24, 16:03 »

http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?scr...matchtype=exact

By the way, games keeper, your insight and brilliant post once again truly aids the readers of this thread.
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 16:05 by Tabun » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: 2005-06-24, 16:12 »

Realize that I take everything into consideration, but I observe the same thing from the scientific community. It fails to fully explore the options they have at hand, and if you read, you'll find out why. My single mindedness and rudeness is exactly what I expected to receive so I don't know what came over me. I'd replace that phrase entirely. I'm not single minded and rude, I am a realist. I call it on how I see. I see the general scientific community still stuck on evolution, when it had been proven time and time again to be false. And they still teach it in public schools as fact. I'm saying we need to explore more options, (even if it involves creation) and that scientists have been wrong on many things (which the Bible backed them up with some facts later on) Now if you read of the examples I give (which in fact you need to read the whole thing to fully understand my point) some are quite ridiculous. This entire thing is based on fact. I'll post the sources if you want, but it is a long list.

Unlike the Catholics (which I disagree with alot of their philosophy) I'm not anti-science, I just think that the general scientific community has lost its focus. They need to explore ALL possibilities, not just shun something because it has traces to scripture. I tried to grasp evolution, but un-like some people Mr.Ingoramus says don't do their homework, I do. I found out that evolution shouldn't even be taught in classrooms, not because it's bias, because it's a false theory that has been disproved time and time again.

Quote
By the way, games keeper, your insight and brilliant post once again truly aids the readers of this thread.
So what's that mean? That I'm single minded because I'm Chirstian. So don't listen to what the febal christian has to say, because he is autoamatically anti-EveryThingElseAnyoneElseBelievesIn. BEWARE READERS I AM CHIRISTIAN!!

I just couldn't resist: Slipgate - Smile

« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 16:40 by Little Washu » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: 2005-06-24, 16:28 »

Sigh, my response to games keeper was obviously (or apparantly not so obviously) a sarcastic one. Meaning he doesn't add anything with such a post.


Quote
I'm saying we need to explore more options

That's not what I read in your posts at all. I see one option. One truth, One solution. That's why it's single-minded. You have no doubts, you call yourself a realist, which is what everyone could call themselves if they face what they consider is the only option.
For you, evolution theory (apparantly even the enhanced and improved versions of it, if you really did your homework Slipgate - Wink), is false, that is evident truth for you. For you it is disproved time and time again. Many of the (other?) experts disagree with you, they are realists too.

As am I. I say: I do not know what the answer is in this, and I do not know if it can be known by Man. Even if exact proof or evidence were presented, I could never know myself unless I lived long enough to test and reason my way through all the evidence and theory. And even then if I could make the connection between a universal truth and the thought about it in my brain. That is our difference: you are single-minded in this respect, I have to keep the options open.

If I misunderstood everything you've posted here, and your thoughts are more like that previous paragraph, than I stand corrected, and I would not call you single-minded at all.
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 16:39 by Tabun » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: 2005-06-24, 16:49 »

I have doubts at times, that is what struggling between faith and the worldly ways is all about. You can't fully rely on the wisdom of man to dictate the way you think.
I wanna let you in on a little secret, I was a full blood atheist back in the day, and I believed in evolution, until I found evidence (even up to date evolution versions Slipgate - Smile ) that it was false. And I doubted the scientific community. Now I'm not going into full details, (unless you want me to post the entire thing, I will if your interested) but I can say it was a long battle.

Quote
Quite long, and certainly very opinionated.

Opinionated yes, but it is all based on fact. I did my research on non-Christian websites, just so I can be sure that the content I was reading was not bias.

Quote
That's not what I read in your posts at all. I see one option. One truth, One solution.

Let me make myself quite clear. The truth is not relevant. You can go around saying to people, "Well that is your truth."
Things that are relevant are things like for example.
I hate the rocket launcher; it's just a cannon fodding gun that looks intimidating.

Things like the origin of mankind, is not relevant.

So there is not multiple solutions, because with things like this, it is impossible to occur.
So when we find irrefutable evidence  of a truth, we got to stick to that, because then everything else goes out the window.
The western cultural idea that one should have their own beliefs regardless if it is contrary to the truth, destroys the people. Instead of having one truth there are thousands. Let me define truth for you:

truth (tr?th)
n., pl. truths (tr?THz, tr?ths).
Conformity to fact or actuality.
A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
Sincerity; integrity.
Fidelity to an original or standard.

Reality; actuality.
often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.


Let go to what we really need to talk about. If you are an evolutionary enthusiast, go make $250,000, you do that then I will believe in evolution, but instead of arguing over crap that will get us no where, when did we actually talk about the content of my first post?


Quote
This one made me laugh. So if we do not try to discover new stuff, we will be wise. If I do remember, the Catholic (is the word correct?) Church even created a thing called Inquisition, so that people would be ignorant, allowing them to manipulate the populations according to their theories. People like Galileo, who proved that the Earth rotated on itself and around the Sun, were called idiots and were killed or putted in exile.
The catholic church was founded in Man's name not under God's, the Bible encourages us to discover natures wonders, (so God is pro-science) and that God has given us this gift, but He expects us not to abuse it, just like anything else. Galileo and friends were inspired by the Bible. Personally, the Catholics are nuts. They worship Mary, and that is a direct violation of the first commandment.

Quote
The Human skeleton has obvious resemblances to the monkey skeleton

This is true, but fool's gold has resemblance to real gold right? I've also heard on the Science Channel that there is only a 2% difference in DNA. But they fail to mention the 2 percent. It's like a steak, 98% is fat and bone and 2% is meat, the 2% is all that matters, so that 2% difference in DNA could be all the difference. I did some looking into the subject and found the 2% is major things like chromosomes (which is the thing that tells a human apart from a carrot) and the rest of the 98% are things like cell structure, sugar phosphates, carbon proteins ect. Things that all living things have. So I guess we evolved from carrots too, along with fish, sea cucumbers, and bees.
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 20:01 by Little Washu » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: 2005-06-24, 20:09 »

Very fascinating discussion, but very hostile in some respects.  Tab, are you sure you know Washu inside out?  For as long as I've worked with you, I know almost nothing about you, I know you know little about me beyond my rants and mod work, so how much do we know about Washu beyond what little he's posted here?  I count him at 190 posts total.  I'm at over 5,000, and I can guarantee nobody here knows squat about me except what I've said so far.  Assumptions - those are what we all hold over each other.  You expressed curiosity about his work, and he posted it.  What did Washu do to deserve any verbal punishment if he behaved according to your expectations?  He holds an opinion.  Don't we all?  I think in this case you got exactly what you expected.  Why then did you react with hostility if he only did what you asked him to?

Washu:  A large part of the problem with truths is the nature of understanding.  Billions of people on this world all live as the same species, pretty much the same sort of existence to some degree (at least in the human sense), yet how many "truths" are there?  Go to Tibet, you'll learn one truth.  Go to Mecca, you'll learn another.  Go to the Vatican, still another.  Go to Jerusalem, and you'll find some very ugly ones.  Reality and perception are quite different things.  This is why humans rarely agree on anything, and even within specific systems of belief, there is still further disagreement.  I too am Christian, so in a sense I share much of the truth you do, but I'm sure we'll disagree on many things if we were to discuss this in depth.  What you understand, and what you know inside can't be translated onto others, no matter how much you'd like it to be.  I know this because I've met with this barrier many times.  I know some things I'll never be able to make others know, and even if I could, most I would not.  Part of growing is learning that your experiences are entirely unique, and that all you can do is offer to share them if people are willing to listen.  Nobody can take them from you, but others also have to walk their own path.  You can't force understanding or acceptence on people.  Not everyone will reach the same conclusions you have, no matter what facts are presented, and some people who hold strong beliefs in opposition to yours will react strongly as a result.  If someone has decided "this is true" or "that is true", it's difficult to change their minds.  Some people don't want their minds changed, and sometimes people think any expression of an opinion is an attempt to change someone's mind.  I'm not saying that's what Tabun is doing here, but a lot of time that is the perception because it's just so common that it is the case.  (Actually I think Tab's seen the sort of back-and-forth confrontation scenario so many times that he's a bit wasted on it, for which I can't blame him, so am I!)

This is the risk taken when holding any strong belief.  You will have people who react negatively towards expression of them, sometimes with reason, sometimes without.  I've had my share of debates and arguments on these forums with people who have disagreed with me, and some who have outright hated me simply because of my faith or the fact that I refuse to abandon it simply because they don't like it.  Some have pulled out every dirty trick in the book to try to make me look like a fool, undermine my character, or have even accused me of being hypocritical.  Some have discussed things with me logically and disagreed, and went on peacefully believing differently.  You'll run into all sorts, and you just have to be respectful, understand the individual and their differences, and keep going forward despite criticism.  You can understand differences without abandoning your convictions.

To me, everyone here is acting predictably, which actually is fairly sad, but not unexpected.  I expected Tab would be offended by Washu's work, and would be annoyed, and yet compelled to respond despite his professed desire to "let it go".  I also knew Washu would respond to Tab's response.  Why?  This is human nature.  I wonder how many of us already have definite opinions formed about each other based on the limited contact we've had on this web forum.  Games Keeper's rather ignorant remark speaks volumes about how we should not react toward one another, regardless of our opinions, positions, or arguments.  Are we conscious of our own motives, faults, and temperments as much as we think we are of others?  Nosce te ipsum.  It's something we all can do better.
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Moshman
 
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« Reply #17 on: 2005-06-24, 20:21 »

Then... we should get on Team Speak and actually speak to each other. Wouldn't be a bad idea. Seriously.

But really my faith forbids me to sit back and watch people go on the "wide path of darkness". I must do something, even if it means my dignaty and pride.
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 20:26 by Little Washu » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: 2005-06-24, 20:51 »

Oh I never said not to do anything, but remember the parable of the sower in Mark chapter 4.  As for Team Speak, I'm afraid verbal communication is out, however I am in #wirehead on irc often, and we can always speak privately on the irc network through text if you like.
« Last Edit: 2005-06-24, 20:52 by Phoenix » Logged


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« Reply #19 on: 2005-06-24, 21:35 »

Quote from: Phoenix
I'm afraid verbal communication is out
How come? Slipgate - Wink *plots
Just wondering
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