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Author Topic: A Fun Project: pt. II (The Lightest of Guards?)  (Read 16661 times)
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Phoenix
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« Reply #20 on: 2006-08-18, 02:03 »

Very good indeed.
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Lopson
 

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« Reply #21 on: 2006-08-19, 10:56 »

Very good work indeed, but I'm still waiting for the gigantic gib player model. Only then will Generations Arena be completed.
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Tabun
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« Reply #22 on: 2006-08-21, 01:33 »

I'm still waiting for someone to bake me the best cake ever.

Anyway, some progress: animations are almost done!



Some tweaking needs to be done on some animations, but the model is progressing nicely.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #23 on: 2006-08-21, 02:12 »

Not what I was expecting for the taunt but I like it.
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Tabun
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« Reply #24 on: 2006-08-21, 02:37 »

Yes, you mentioned something about expecting something specific.. was that expectation based on my earlier work, or on Quake2 animations? :]
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #25 on: 2006-08-21, 02:59 »

Quake 2 animations.
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Tabun
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« Reply #26 on: 2006-08-21, 03:02 »

I did have a long look at the animations of the original Guard, but there wasn't anything taunty enough (or simply not doable with Q3's model setup). Point me in the right direction, and if it's really cool, I might give it a try :]
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #27 on: 2006-08-21, 03:12 »

The run/shoot animations on frames 118-126 have a kind of "hero" pose quality, as do the stand frames from 195-214 where he raises up the gun and racks the slide on it.  Those were the only ones that sprung to mind.
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Angst
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« Reply #28 on: 2006-08-21, 06:57 »

oh heck yeah, I'd love to skin that baby. <3
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Tabun
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« Reply #29 on: 2006-08-21, 13:38 »

Go right ahead. here is that 'SDK'.
For the skinners hoping to see their skins in the 'official release': I won't make any promises on inclusion. If the skin is good and done in time (ie. before or shortly after I get my batch of skins done and ready for release Slipgate - Wink), I will consider it.
« Last Edit: 2006-08-21, 13:39 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Tabun
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« Reply #30 on: 2006-08-22, 05:05 »

Well, I've done a lot of tweaking, simply to get the model looking at least acceptable in all standard operations of playing. Aside from his taunt and two custom (but simple) death animations, I haven't really de-Quake3-charactered this one. His motions are a bit more subdued, taking off the sharp Steed-edges.

The point is, I have an acceptable version for usage in Q3 and Generations, as far as the model itself goes:


Later on, I will spend some time tweaking death animations more severely. I will attempt to recreate at least one original Quake 2 death for this one, too, but I'll have to see if that will work out..

Next stop will probably be skin number one, finally doing away with that colourful patchwork he's prancing about in, now.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #31 on: 2006-08-22, 09:16 »

I'm looking at the railgun and at the model, and what I see is a shoulder support of a Railgun not fitting the model's shoulder. But besides that detail, the model looks very nice, even without a skin.
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Kingu
 

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« Reply #32 on: 2006-08-22, 10:14 »

Krusader remember that rocket launcher is longer than railgun, and even if it would be shorter You don't want to burn his shoulder in every shot. Slipgate - Grin

His legs in that standing pose looks not like guard, even as cyborg he would get tired by standing like that.
« Last Edit: 2006-08-22, 12:02 by Kingu » Logged
Tabun
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« Reply #33 on: 2006-08-22, 14:19 »

Quote
what I see is a shoulder support of a Railgun not fitting the model's shoulder
Quote
His legs in that standing pose looks not like guard

Either you two harass me, or you are 1) ignorant of the way Q3 weapons are positioned and 2) expecting to see a Quake 2 single player monster, instead of a Quake 3 playable character.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain.

1) Weapon positioning goes as follows: Just as with the positioning of head to torso, and torso to legs, weapon position is determined by a single tag (a triangle that indicates position and direction). This is how Q3 combines running and taunting, for instance. The upper and lower half of the body animate separately, and are connected through a tag.

Now the thing is, there is exactly one tag for every point of connection. So, there is one tag for the head, one for the torso and one tag for 'weapon'. This means that every weapon (all having a tag of their own) is position according to the same tag. Since the tags of the weapons cannot be changed (for obvious reasons), an animator has to pick a wise spot for the single tag that will determine the weapon position.

An practical example: while doing the taunt, at one point the shotgun, railgun, machinegun and hyperblaster shoulder stock disappeared quite far into the model's elbow. That was no good, so I tweaked the tag. This looked fine for those weapons, but alas, in the next version, the BFG10k stuck horribly in the characters leg and waist. So, I had to tweak and reposition that tag until it looked acceptable with all weapons, in all animation frames (that's 12 weapons and 238 frames of animation).
Aside from the railgun not even intersecting with the model incorrectly anywhere in the above shot, I therefore see no problem!


2) Since Q3 is a fast-paced game, trying to get that single-player-monster look is going to have awkward results. I'm willing to live with some of them, such as in a death animation, but not in the warp and woof of combat.
Here's the story behind it (feel free to add spice to the narrative in your interpretation :p): There once was a Strogg guard who disobeyed orders from his (tank) commanders. He rebelled and ended up doing three things: a) fabricating a new right hand, releasing him from a low status on the job market, b) training and working out till he got beefier and able to jump and c) torturing prisoners of war after the Earth attack on Stroggos. The Vadrigar got wind of the latter and rewarded this guard's efforts with a place in the arena. Voila.

Ofcourse, A screenshot is a freeze-frame, and a model's bobbing up and down will obviously not be recorded by it.
Hold off on such qualms until you've seen it ingame, and compared it with Q3 models, please! :]
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Kingu
 

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« Reply #34 on: 2006-08-22, 14:47 »

I didn't ment to harass you and sorry if it sounded that way.
Had thought about adding thing like "but we won't see him standing ofthen anyway" but finally i didn't do it.
 Now I think I got sugested by his poses on other posted screens, where he was standing stright.

 And i like that story, with sillynes of "b" part. Slipgate - Smirk
« Last Edit: 2006-08-22, 14:52 by Kingu » Logged
Tabun
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« Reply #35 on: 2006-08-22, 14:51 »

Hehe, that must be the case, because this is one of his standing poses in Quake 2! :
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #36 on: 2006-08-22, 15:44 »

An alternate story if you like, and one that bridges Q2, Q3, and Q4.

After the assassination of the Makron, the Strogg realized they underestimated the human capability to adapt.  They realized they had relied too much on mechanical discipline and raw firepower, their utter technological dominance which had been their primary strength was now their primary liability.  As a result, they formulated a new and simple plan - give their troops more brains to go with their brawn.  This guard was the first of a new breed of soldier, a prototype that was superior to the original prosthetic-weapon guards.  Smarter, faster, tougher, and able to adapt and use the enemy's weapons against them.  Well, all first attempts tend to be flawed, and by their loosening of their reigns on the mind he regained too much self-awareness.  His conscious will clashed with his Strogg programming, turning him psychotic as a result, and he began slaughtering anyone and anything he could find.  This made him perfect combat material for the Arenas Eternal, and so prior to being evaporated by a supertank's rocket barrage, was claimed by the Vadrigar for eternal combat.  Eventually the Strogg overcame these flaws and developed the best balance of combat smarts and technological control over their ranks just in time to give their forces an edge against the invading Marine landing.  These are the new Strogg seen in Quake 4.

I also see no problem with the model poses, and that's actually a combat stance in martial arts.  The idea isn't standing for comfort's sake, but standing so that you can move quickly in any direction at any moment.
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Kingu
 

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« Reply #37 on: 2006-08-22, 19:07 »

But Phoenix, does gun holding "marine" is standing in martial arts combat stance, when standing and waiting to react ?
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Tabun
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« Reply #38 on: 2006-08-22, 19:09 »

Only the clever ones, Kingu! The fools (the ones dying by the dozens) don't, and hence are practically extinct..
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Kingu
 

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« Reply #39 on: 2006-08-22, 19:40 »

No wonder Makron failed, not to mention others.  Slipgate - Smile~  Slipgate - Roll Eyes
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