|
|
|
Phoenix
|
Did some FPS testing.
System 1:
Athlon XP 1800+ 1.53 GHz CPU
2 GB PC 2700 DDR SDRAM
GeForce Ti 4600 with 128 MB video RAM
Resolution: 800x600
Anisotropic filtering: 4x
FSAA: No
Com_maxfps: 125
Max monitor refresh: 140Hz
r_picmip: 1
r_roundimagesdown: 0
Spectating empty map: FPS drop to 70 in outdoor areas (both) when distant from building. r_speeds were minimal, so I switched to r_vertexlight 1. FPS problem disappeared. Lighting in these areas appears to cause FPS loss on this hardware.
Gameplay: FPS dropped into the 50-70 FPS range during firefights. This occured using the non-public beta and .99f. FPS loss was worse with the beta owing to the particle system still being cgame-side and causing some CPU binding. Worst loss was around 30 FPS with heavy fighting and Strogg chaingun throwing particles everywhere.
======================
Comparitive Test: Mksteel
Similar FPS results to above during gameplay.
======================
System 2:
Opteron 175 Dualcore 2.2GHz CPU
2 GB PC3200 DDR SDRAM
GeForce GT 250 with 857 MB video RAM
Test 1: .99f
Resolution: 800x600
Anisotropic filtering: No
FSAA: No
Com_maxfps: 125
Max monitor refresh: 140Hz
r_picmip: 0
r_roundimagesdown: 0
Spectating empty map: No FPS Loss.
Gameplay: No FPS Loss.
Test 2: .99f
Resolution: 800x600
Anisotropic filtering: 8x
FSAA: 4x
Com_maxfps: 125
Max monitor refresh: 140Hz
r_picmip: 0
r_roundimagesdown: 0
Spectating empty map: No FPS Loss.
Gameplay: No FPS Loss.
Test 3: Non-public Beta
Resolution: 1024x768
Anisotropic filtering: 8x
FSAA: 4x
Com_maxfps: 100 (125 FPS not necessary for physics gains in this build)
Max monitor refresh: 100Hz
r_picmip: 0
r_roundimagesdown: 0
Spectating empty map: No FPS Loss.
Gameplay: Minimal FPS loss when heavy dlight saturation present.
======================
Conclusion: FPS loss is about as expected on an older system, and would be less if I turned off anisotropic filtering. With high-end hardware, FPS loss is limited to Quake 3's inefficient dynamic light handling when a lot of plasma is flying around, but only when using high detail settings like high FSAA and very high Anisotropic Filtering settings. FPS losses overall are not any worse than some very common quality Q3 maps, and are significantly better than some very graphics-heavy maps like Decidia or Moonstone. The average gamer's system will have no trouble with this map, and high-end hardware loves it. Only a very old computer will have any difficulty, but that difficulty exists with other maps and can be adjusted for by utilizing appropriate detail settings.
The only area I saw where there might be some inherent inefficiency is in the lightmap compiling, which may or may not improve based on your compile settings in Radiant. I don't know if that's possible or not, I'm not a mapper so Boot could better answer that sort of thing. Map geometry is a non-issue as far as framerate is concerned based on my testing. 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
   
Posts: 3330
|
Excellent testing, thanks. Ok, that sound like I would expect and is acceptable to me.
If I can figure out a way to make the lightmap have less of an impact without sacrificing quality too much, I'll try it.
I'm going to add some more eye-candy here and there. Outside areas do need work, but I'm not going to add too many transparant brushes there, so it shouldn't make a difference for framerates.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
|
Phoenix
|
Since it only hit a system that's about 6 revisions backdated on graphics with anisotropic filtering running, I wouldn't worry too much on the lightmap causing FPS loss. 
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
Righto. I'm only at 10k max r_speeds right now, and that's with entities. So I guess I can add some stuff here and there. By the way, unrelated: check out this map: industrial (40Mbs) or this one: history. Absolutely stunning. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
I don't think that'll happen soon. The "playable" version is called Crescent, which is also a bit less detailed. I have a feeling these two maps are pretty much key pieces in his portfolio, and probably intended as such. If you want to see more of his work, check out these: solar or crescent. I'm making progress with my comparatively simple (  ) map, in the meantime. Maybe I should post new version here, though I haven't toyed with items yet. I really need to work on my thesis this weekend, so I guess I could fix one up and let it rest in the hands of testers for a while. :] |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
Okay, I've got something new! Not enough changes to post it as "beta2" on q3w, so I'm calling this alpha2. return to the entryway, alpha2(9 Mb this time.. shouldn't grow beyond that.. much.. ;]) Gameplay won't really be different, as the items are still the same, but the door timing has changed. Mostly an aesthetics-update. There's one bug in there that I know about: a small hole that results in HOM next to the stairs outside. Already fixed that, but couldn't be arsed to recompile the whole thing for that. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas Mink
|
Not sure if it got raised or not, but the invisible platform is gone. I wasn't able to jump up there, so I guess I'm doing something wrong.. then again, my trick jumping skills never existed in the first place. Not being able to get up there (outside of a rocket jump) does add a bit to the map though.. as do the timing changes on the doors. Only thing I see is that going outside to the shotgun still feels kinda wasted, but that's no fault of yours. Quite a blast to play on.. either in all Doom or mixed games. I do agree about the spectator spawn tho.. but on the other hand that was discussed before, no?  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
I wasn't able to jump there myself. Mind you, I'm testing with vanilla, mostly.
I really want the platform/end-of-match camera position to be in the big outdoor area. If there's a way to split the spectator spawn from this, let me know, and I'll do so.
Also, this is still the exact item layout as it was in "beta1". I'm going to tinker with a custom item layout after I get the visuals done. Wasn't planning on adding a railgun. Going outside will become a better idea after item changes. Both outdoors areas are probably going to have a powerup-ish (MH/RA or the like) item to lure players all over the map.
Edit: forgot about "pmove_fixed", and this PC needed that for that jump. Shouldn't have to be much higher than this.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 2009-08-22, 07:09 by Tabun »
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
Good. I think I have it fixed now. I have some more work to do (both on the map's look and my thesis) but after that I think I can finally try a custom item layout for this one. That should really help make it more fun to play...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
|
Phoenix
|
Well seeing that it's already fun to play... from a Doomer's perspective, it's a lot more enjoyable even with the original lineup than Map01 is in Doom 2. I've played DM and 1vs1, and in Doom 2, it's way too easy to just camp the middle hall and spawnfrag everyone with the SSG. In Gen, you've got some maneuvering room, and spawn protection really helps. The fights are just as frantic, and a lot of it goes on in that middle hall with bots, but it's a lot more fun, especially when you throw in the other classes. Even with two BFG's, since there's no BFG ammo spawn you pretty much get only one shot unless you run back into the BFG room, which is dangerous at best since anyone spawning in there is going to be gunning for you and likely have more health. Slipgate actually has more of an advantage in the hallway with the Thunderbolt and Rocket Launcher spawns where they are. Strogg has it tough if he doesn't spawn on the BFG/Shotgun/Rocket Launcher platform, but if he can grab the chaingun in the hall he can inflict some serious damage. Same with the SSG, anyone but Slipgate going for that gun will have some stopping power, and Earth can just demolish everything with the gats. It's damned near perfect as far as reproducing the kind of gameplay I'd expect to see. The only downside is with a lot of Doomers come a lot of chainsaw rushes, but that's expected. Bots are just a bit more suicidal about it in the non-public beta. With mixed classes, God I love playing this map. I got up to 300 frags before I realized how long I had been on it.
I did notice that I never spawned nor saw any bots spawn out in the shotgun courtyard; I only spawned there as spectator. I know you put some extra spawns in the map, but I didn't know if you intended to put one out there or not. Doors are working perfect so far.
Edit: One request on any custom variation of this map. A grenade launcher would be nice to add some extra variety to the map, but please no rail if possible.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 2009-08-24, 20:46 by Phoenix »
|
Logged
|
I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
Twas nice to read that you had no trouble getting 300 frags in there without getting bored! :]
There is a player spawn in the shotgun room. I accidentally had it set as "initial" which makes you spawn there the first time. Not a biggie, but that's fixed, as it was kind of weird. I think there are 7 player spawns in all in the map. I might make it 8 ("round" number), but not sure if that's a good idea yet.
Edit: I realize now that you didn't mean the blue room, but where the boomstick is at. My bad. Intentionally didn't place a spawn point there -- I want that area to be a powerup room, so that would probably be a bad idea. Also, bots might not be able to get out on their own.. :]
I wanted to add a GL myself! It's always fun and more hectic with pills flying. I won't add a railgun unless I happen to think of a really great reason to have it in. I'm thinking of the following setup:
Powerups:
MH at chainsaw platform, YA where it is now, YA in exit room, Powerup(s) in big outside area (probably the non-insane ones, like regen/haste/invis), medikit on top of the lift near the outside-door-button.
Weapons:
SG where it is now in blue room, RL in "secret" room where it is now, GL in starting area near stairs, PG where it is now, LG in "secret" room near exit. I probably don't want a BFG in there, as I want the "normal custom layout" to be sort-of-okay for normal Q3A as well.
Probably lots of ammo on the platforms in the blue room and the outside area, but I'll have to think of that after I got the weapons sorted out.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 2009-08-28, 16:59 by Tabun »
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
Okay peeps, big update time. Here's the latest version: tabd2map01_alpha3Optional music pk3 to add for extra nostalgia value: tabd2map01_musicNew in this is: still more aesthetics tweaks. Map is a bit heavier on the GPU now, but should still be well under the acceptable limits. Some bugs and annoyances were fixed aswell. Bots can now easily get to the PG, for instance. Added a funky trick with the door-button to access the outside area; it plays a doomy sound alerts players globally. Biggest update is the item layout change. This will probably need quite a bit of testing. Playing it vs. bots is ok so far, but they're too dumb for the tricky parts of the map. Bots don't go for buttons (deliberately, anyway) and they won't go outside at all, nor do I expect they will ever weapon-jump to get to the megahealth. For any testing, keep in mind that I want this to play well in normal Q3 too -- it shouldn't just be a Generations-only map. The old layout is in there too: you can load that one up with "tabd2map01_pure". Note that this version is not compiled with the best lighting settings. It will eventually look exactly like the "purist" version, which is compiled for finalized lighting. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas Mink
|
That's weird.. I run the map in Gen .99f (it's really the only way I even play q3 any more) and I didn't see any exploding items on those platforms. I made it a point to watch them numerous times.. picking up the items and letting them respawn before the plats raised.. just leaving them there for the duration.. etc. The added tweaks to the map all look great, but I can't say much about the new item layout yet. Then again, I doubt I'll be able to give any reliable feedback anyway since I'm no good with such things. From what I've played so far, both versions of the map play great.. but I'll agree with Pho on one thing and say that having a BFG in the pure version does kinda spoil you. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 2009-08-28, 22:20 by Thomas Mink »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Phoenix
|
I tried it in .99f and the non-public version, and the items explode every time the platforms in the blue room raise back up. If I pick up the items or leave them on the platforms, if I'm in or out of the room, it doesn't matter. They go boom, and that's that - they're killed from the level until a map_restart. The only way I can get them to stay put is playing vanilla Q3.
Edit: I found and fixed the problem. It was a code bug in Generations. I missed changing two instances of origin checking in the mover function. Plats work now. I'll have to re-release the server patch it seems, but that will have to wait until after the host transition. 
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: 2009-08-29, 03:03 by Phoenix »
|
Logged
|
I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
|
|
|
Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
|
BFG is going to stay out, I'm afraid. If I make another version, like a Generations-balanced item layout, then it'll certainly be back in. But then, the purist version is fun with Generations already (everything seems to be! ). Code bug is bad, but not all bad for me, I guess. No changes necessary, then? And Mink, any feedback on the items helps -- I talked to Alucard yesterday and he didn't think it a bad idea to load up a version of the map to the euro server and play it for a couple of rounds. The more that join in, the merrier, and the better it's tested. Just pay attention to what annoys you in play. Ofcourse, it may be a better idea to load it up on a Pho's server. All fine with me ofcourse. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
| |
|
|
|
|
