Tekhead
Elite
Posts: 1110
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Still, the Invulnerability is a god-like item right now, and rolling its effect back to the Q3 battle suit effect would not necesarily be be nerfing the item, since it is still quite useful.
Bumping up the respawn time of the powerup doesn't help much either since the item is still overbearing in power, although it is just less frequent. Bumping up the timer to 5 minutes would also effectively cause the powerup to spawn only twice per map, almost removing it from the game.
If the invuln's power was altered back to the battlesuit and the respawn timer of it was 3 minutes, I think some interesting gameplay could be the result.
(edit: on a side note, anyone at 200/200 is fairly rare in gen =)
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« Last Edit: 2004-12-09, 14:41 by Tekhead »
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Elite (3k+)
  
Posts: 3330
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Well, I'd even feel better if only 5% of the damage would get through. There's something wrong about not being able to dish out _any_ damage at all. Only a slipgater with plenty of rockets can do something about an invul doomer on the prowl :]
In my experience, 200/200 is not uncommon, certainly not in maps like Howling Wilderniss etc.
200/200 in combination with a powerup is less common, as long as there's more than one person who keeps track of their digital/biological timer..
I'm up for any kind of tests, as per usual - that is, if it isn't at 5 am GMT+1.. I don't know what'd best without testing anyway. At one hand, invul is just too much. On the other hand, it's 100% nostalgia.. which is what we are about anyway. Oh well, I'll be looking forward to whatever gets cooked up :]
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« Last Edit: 2004-12-09, 20:01 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Gnam
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LOL, it's true, I think I see Kajet with the invul atleast as much as Pho, Tek, and Tab. The problem is not so much that the invul gives the elite players too much advantage, simply that it doesn't make for very fun gameplay (regardless of who has it). If you're the one with the invul, it's boring because there's no risk. If you're the victim, it's boring because all you can do is run away. Its very effect is penalizing everyone because it's not fun for anyone.
On the other hand, the battle suit still has a risk. This makes it fun for the guy using it because it gives him an advantage but he has to keep on his toes, and it makes it fun for the victim because he has a chance of fighting back, and if he wins he can take the battle suit for himself. It's just more fun all around, for everyone.
As for 'nerfing', why is nerfing the invulerability ok, but nerfing the battle suit isn't? And how does the battle suit really give more advantage to elite players than other power ups? If it's not a problem that the elites and get quad and rape everyone, why is it a problem that elites can get the battle suit and rape everyone? In any case, if there was a problem, a slight bump up on the respawn timer would make an optimal compromise in my opinion.
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Makou
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It gives an advantage to the elite players because they can aim better than the more average players. I'm hardly ever at 200/200 in any game. I might be at 200/150, at best, when I have the chance. If I pick up the battle suit, chances are that somebody like Pho is going to cheat like he always does (  ) and rail me to death anyway, while he wouldn't be able to do that if I'd just picked up invulnerability. That said, I still hate the invulnerability. I've never thought it was a fun item outside of a single-player game (the exception being Mario Kart -- if somebody uses a Star, half the fun is trying to stay away, and there are still things you can do against it). I'd be just as happy to have it removed entirely, to be honest. |
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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ConfusedUs
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I disliked the battlesuit, but not as much as I dislike the invul. The arguement about being able to bounce/dislodge an incoming player means nothing unless you're stocked up and have a lot of ammo.
Strogg can do virtually NOTHING against an incoming invul player. Rockets are too slow with too little spash. Chaingun just slows 'em down...for the 2 seconds until you run out of ammo. Rail you have to be a dead-eye, never miss, and pray your opponent can't aim.
Earth is nearly as bad, but at least the mortar can slow invul players down a bit, and the flamer can disorient them by setting them on fire.
Slipgate fares well, if they have a lot of rockets. One slippy rocket can put another player halfway across the map, if aimed well.
Arena is almost as good as Slipgate, but the real winner in the OH SHIT ITS AN INVUL PLAYER RUN contest is the Doom guy, who can outrun, outspam, and flat-out out-anything. Plasma will stop someone in their tracks. Rapid-fire rockets can do the same. The SSG will blow an aggressive player away.
Of course, the opposite is true as well. When invul, the Doom class STILL has the edge, as the other classes don't have the same stopping power or speed (trickjumping aside) to get away. Earth also rocks invul, as speed don't mean jack when you have a gun for everything and you don't have to worry about dodging.
I vote go back to battlesuit (or perhaps something in between, like a flat 5-10% damage from everything: splash and direct hits both). Some classes rely on splash more than others, like Slipgate.
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ReBoOt
Mean ol Swede
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Elite
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I agree with most of you however replacing the invulner with a battlesuit..well aslong as the MODEL aint changed and the NAME that's fine with me!
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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lol Reb. Don't worry about the model - I'm not about to make any replacements for those invul's, whatever way this turns out :]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Makou
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Sounds like something that would be worth giving a shot, at least.  If it isn't obvious by now: I'm alive again. Sorry for vanishing like I did.  |
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« Last Edit: 2004-12-10, 08:07 by Makou »
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Kain-Xavier
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I personally like Invulnerability because it gives me more freedom to screw around without inflicting damage upon myself. However, I do agree that invulnerable players are rather hard to ward off if they're chasing you. (I tend to ward them off by dying and respawning in a different location.  ) I don't really have an opinion about how it should be altered so I'll just accept whatever the final decision is.  |
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Tekhead
Elite
Posts: 1110
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Nah, I'd say have it 50% direct damage and immune to splash/enviromental damage. This way, good accuracy (rather than spam) is rewarded to whoever shoots down the guy with the powerup. Plus, direct rocket hits look damn cool =D
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
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Posts: 3330
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Standard being three minutes.. right?
And yes, oldschool mode will rock. I'm already looking forward to totally unfair oldschool custom nights :]
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« Last Edit: 2004-12-10, 15:42 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Makou
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If there was a way to reward someone for killing a battlesuited player, then I'd agree that the default is the way to go. Unfortunately, the standard Q3 battle suit forces some classes to play an entirely different game than they ever should have to, with zero benefit for being able to do so other than being able to pick up the suit from the dead player.
Let's give Pho's suggestion a try, first.
Just to be sure (this is a really stupid question, but ), doing this will not have an impact on spawn protection, right?
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« Last Edit: 2004-12-10, 20:11 by Makou »
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Tekhead
Elite
Posts: 1110
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Unfortunately, the standard Q3 battle suit forces some classes to play an entirely different game than they ever should have to, with zero benefit for being able to do so other than being able to pick up the suit from the dead player. Er... what classes will be playing a different game than Generations? Zero benefit from what? Please be clearer in what you're trying to say, I can't understand it. |
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
Team Member
Elite
Posts: 1011
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Earth and Strogg come to mind.
I'd say Doom Earth and Strogg receive the greatest benefit from a true invuln.
Doom because he can chase you down with impunity, Earth and Strogg because it offsets their iron pants.
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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Phoenix
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You've never seen a Slipgater use it to rocket-jump across a map at high speed then.
And no, spawn protection will remain full invulnerability, but thanks for bringing that up so I don't forget to put in an exception for the timer.
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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ConfusedUs
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Also, our invul should make one immune to one's own splash/fire
I'm all for a 75% damage reduction 'invul' powerup.
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