Anyway, I normally wouldn?t expect any of you to hold such knowledge over my work, but in this instance I had posted the short excerpt on these very forums.
I've read Mundane Anarchy.
Oh, also in specific reply to the comment of
?your dumb ass characters?, I?d just like to call you an illiterate alcoholic.
So we're up for the "justified tit-for-tat" personal insults, are we? What did we warn you about this before? Oh right, you're justified for insulting Woodsman directly because he used the phrase "dumb ass" to describe your "characters". Sorry, that's not going to fly.
Despite being off of the actual banned list, my posting rights were never restored.
You should have PM'd one of the moderators.
Ah, and we finally get to your statements Phoenix. These will, of course, be the most tedious to reply to.
Glad to make you have to strategize and go into full "careful response" mode.
I don?t care if anyone follows my way, I enjoy the lonesome comfort anyway. If you would read the very statement that you quoted, I despise the corruption found within Christianity.
No, you consider Christianity itself a corruption and corrupting element along the way to what you consider an ideal society. Don't try to veil your thoughts, they are transparent.
Under all of that superstition and foolish dogma is a decent enough system, just as there is to be found in most religions.
Because if you keep the principles and eliminate God, then you're happy. Problem is, we believe the principles originate FROM God, which is kind of why the two are inseparable. See, this is what you fail to grasp about faith. It's not just about morals, it's an entire way of life that goes deeper. You have to open yourself to God, THEN everything else falls into place. The corruption is a result of people who play at religion instead of seeking righteousness and then doing their best to live it.
As you said, Western civilization is heavily tainted by Christianity
No I most certainly did not, I do not, like you, consider Christianity "tainting". I said it was built with Christianity in full flower. You're the one not giving credit where credit is due. As for the Roman Empire, well, we all know what happened to that one.
Whether or not something was prophesized in the Holy Bible is irrelevant. Within the pages of your book are many vague prophecies that have happened a multitude of times and will continue to, simply because they are so common through societies.
I could go into a whole host of verses to explain why this statement is patently false, but I see no point in it. Instead I'll say this: You're fulfilling one prophecy about how scoffers would appear in the later times doubting Christ's return, and how people would turn away from the faith. Tell me, how many religions actually predict their own decline? Seems counter-productive if religion is just self-serving as you believe it to be.
Is that the beginning of your autobiography? It?s pretty good so far, definitely descriptive of you. Yeah, a delusional perch, a self appointed place above everyone else. I can?t wait to see the finished product.
That's where you fail. I do not consider myself above everyone else. I consider myself a fallen creature who is unworthy of the gifts and mercies he has been given. Don't mistake confidence for pompousness, and don't mistake indignation with arrogance. I can be arrogant if I choose to be, it's a failing I readily admit to. Admitting one's faults is part of what being a Christian is about, as there is no forgiveness without a repentant heart.
(Phoenix)Gee, He SO wants to damn everyone to hell that he was willing to sacrifice his own son to torment and death, who also went willingly, to pay for the mistakes and screwups of us lesser creatures![/color]
My statement was not made to be the authoritative description of a belief, so much as an observation of what many of your modern predecessors believe.
Oh bullshit. You've already dug youself into that hole, my memory isn't so bad that I've forgotten your rants about how Christianity is the root of all evil, has caused so much pain and suffering, etc. You even included a snippet of that down later in your text, so don't try to backtrack now.
You don?t see love in my heart because I have presented you with none. I don?t waste my love on undeserving creatures. To love everyone without discrimination is an insult to those that actually deserve it, and in fact degrades the very meaning of love itself.
You don't even know what love is, and this very statement proves this fact. I've tried to provide examples, but you just will not listen. I would explain how it works if you wished, but the fact that you think love must be somehow "deserved" to be given is exactly why you'll never get it. It's why you can't understand Christianity. I'm afraid I can't do anything to open your eyes. None of us deserve love, which is why love can only be given freely. Before you can understand love, you need to understand mercy, and compassion, and forgiveness. Love reaches down to pull people up, it does not sit there in cold judgement of what it perceives to be lesser beings.
I mean, where would we be without the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the crusades and the genocidal ?colonization? of North America just to name a few?
Right, and let's hang the white man for owning slaves at one point too. Let's go all the way back in time and hold trials for dinosaurs because they repressed mammals for millions of years as well. Seriously, the absurdity of your attitude is astounding. The past is OVER WITH. What's done is done, I don't pretend to hide the sins people have committed in the name of God. Stop pretending the sins committed in the name of secularism are no worse.
I don?t like you because you oppose my ideology? That?s laughable, that your small insurrections would drive me to despise you so much. You should really stop flattering yourself.
Flattering myself enough that someone - either you or one of your friends - chooses to post under my name on your own forum, right down to hotlinking my signature and avatar pics? It's not like I didn't get wind of that. Who's flattering who now?
A lot of atheists do tend to come off as quite pompous, actually. I know you see this though, you just won?t ?come out and so say directly?... Oh, except in threads about Leftists, where your intents become all to obvious to onlookers. Poor Assamite, you?ve taken a lot of anger out on him lately about his liberal views it would seem.
I have nothing against Assamite personally. We get along quite well in the chat room when he's been in there, and when we've played games together. Do I think he follows a very twisted and biased political philosophy? Yes. Do I think that sometimes results in a misplaced sympathy for "ignorant" conservatives that can be construed as a bit arrogant and insulting? Of course. I'm sure he thinks the same about me. Still, we can disagree in politics and get along elsewhere. As for Leftists being pompous - perhaps I should have been more clear that the leadership of the Left is where this originates from, not necessarily Assamite personally. Not all of my "anger" is addressed to him personally. If I hated his guts I'd just say so. I don't. I have no reason to.
(Phoenix)I have gay friends. I love them as much as I love my straight friends. Sexual orientation is irrelevent to me.
That point wasn?t even directed at you personally. I know it?s difficult for you to believe that something someone says isn?t about you, but you really need to stop taking such offense to everything and begin actually reading the fine points of people?s statements.
I was merely providing an example to counter your blanket statement. Glad it went over your head, but then you never take anecdotal evidence seriously anyway.
I have investigated and still am. My curiosity is never fulfilled. I?m observing everyday and in fact am right now. My point still stands though. How do you believe in and follow something that you don?t even know the ?truth? about? I assume you don?t speak very many languages outside of English, and even if so one of them probably isn?t Aramaic. So, with that in mind you have only read translations of the Holy Bible, which are interpretations of mortal authors that have been censored and edited by church authorities throughout the centuries.
How can science believe in an event that supposedly happened 17 billion years ago from some minor background microwave radiation in space? Yet science says that's enough to try to describe how the universe looked back then. If that's the case why should a translation from one language to another be so much of a stumbling block? Sounds more like an excuse to dismiss if you ask me. And what is this "truth" we're somehow missing? Oh, that's right, it's that the bible is nothing but an edited fabrication. Can YOU read and speak Aramaic? Or Hebrew? Or Greek? Have you studied the actual scrolls themselves? Then how can you say what's written WASN'T translated properly? Either way, translation of one text to another may lose some details, and regardless of editing and skewing by human hand, I trust that God knew in advance and anticipated such interference from fallible man. It's something called "having faith". Besides, if I want to know something from the literal Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic directly I know where to look.
(Phoenix)Then you have no right to sit in judgement of us.
Really, why not? I said that I do not personally know anyone that is truly Christian.
Who appointed you to decide who is or is not "truly" Christian?
What I mean by that is that I have an acquaintance or two that go to church or say they?re Christian, but merely do so because that?s what they were raised to do. It?s not a matter of them actually believing in the religion as much as it is conditioning, something that is very much the foundation of any respectable cult.
Right, pick the poorest example you can think of to form a basis for your opinion. Real thorough investigation there. Sounds more like condemnation through convenience to me.
Simply because I am self isolated from your kind does not strip me of my right of judgment. That?s the problem with you guys, you always want to tell everyone what right they do and do not have, and that was the point of my argument from the beginning.
If we followed that logic we Christians would have the right to judge you as a heathen unbeliever and torture you, then burn you at the stake if you did not repent, since the torment in hell would certainly be far worse than any torment on earth. After all, you can't tell us what we have the right to do! You want to talk about the Dark Ages? I know all about that sort of attitude, and THIS is why Christ warned "Judge not, lest ye be judged, for as thou judgeth
so shalt thou also be judged. We don't do that sort of thing anymore since we all are allowed to actually read the bible, thanks to Gutenburg and Luther, and know what Christ actually said as opposed to having corrupt
men using the church to withold God's truth
from us believers. All those misguided good intentions are known for what they were, and were done away with. That's all you can see of us though, which is a pity.
Rights DO have limitations. Your rights end where mine begin, and vice-versa. Where you make the mistake is forgetting that our rights matter just as much as yours. Like it or not, there are things you cannot do because there are consequences for them. Attitudes like yours is why there are laws protecting free excercise of religion. You would trample on other people's rights, considering your own to be more important, in order to have things your way. Yet you'll be the first to accuse us of trying to do the very same thing. I take a low opinion of people who clamor for their rights constantly. "Me, me, me." All you care about is what you want. For we Christians it's "Self last, others first." That's how we survived the constant persecution under the first 300 years of Roman rule - by example, not be edict.
?That's like me asking you to listen to Rush Limbaugh and take him seriously. What would be the point? I know what Moore's agenda is, I don't need to see his stupid film, I saw him in action for four years, right along with Soros and all the others.? Oh yay, that?s right. Hmmm, interesting isn?t it?
Please don't be so dense. My statement was about Assamite's anti-conservative bias vs my conservative bias, and how asking either one of us to take the other's "poster-child" seriously was a laughable notion. That's like me asking you to take the Bible seriously. The difference is that I have Moore on record and his actions are observable, so I don't need watch his film to see what he's trying to pull. This is why Moore is open to public scrutiny, the same as pundits like Limbaugh and Hannity are. Anyone trying to affect public policy deserves close scrutiny and heavy skepticism, which leads me to my next point.
(Phoenix)Con: I wanted to get this out into the open once and for all, which is why I didn't moderate this. The best way to show someone for what they are is to let them shoot their mouth off and make an example out of themselves.
Do you really believe that I?m showing myself here on these forums? I do this for entertainment; I have no personal involvement invested within these debates, as I obviously do not gain or loss anything from them. I only fully reveal myself to those worthy of true form. To be known is a weakness, one must remain an enigma.
In otherwords, you are guilty of cowardice. You're afraid that people will stand in judgement over you, and condemn you so you shroud yourself in mystery. You're afraid of just being who you are. That's the difference between us. You may think I hide behind a mask of an online persona, but this *IS* who I am. I make no apoligies for what I believe, nor do I try to conceal it. It is veiled intents and deceit that are dangerous, as people who won't be frank and honest do so because of fear that their true selves, or true agendas, will undo them if found out. If that's all this is to you, just a lot of smoke and mirrors, then you've done more to tell us who and what you are than any amount of words ever could. If all you can do is troll from the shadows, then you'll remain a troll and nothing else. Look at the world around you. Very little ever grows in darkness, and what does is seldom ever good. Think about that.
