Lopson
Elite
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Still Going In Circles
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This leads me to my second point. You mention the Israelis... People need to start looking at suicide bombers the way the IDF looks at them. The IDF and Israeli Intelligence views suicide bombers as weapons, not humans with bombs strapped to them. They are a slow-moving, cloaked guided missile, nothing else. This kind of weapon is an explosive device with a human brain for the guidance system, and a human body for the delivery mechanism. If that sounds cold, well it should. These bombers sold their humanity when they decided to start down this path, so it's time the world stops questioning their motives and starts developing a defensive plan to counter them. If you keep looking at them as people and trying to understand them you'll never be rid of them. They don't need to be understood, they need to be stopped. Nothing short of that is acceptible. You said something absolutely true that causes a lot of controversy in the international community. Have you ever noticed how the International community strikes against this Israeli mentality? They gave a Nobel Piece Prize to that damn terrorist Yasser Arafat, they gave him top medical treatment, AND WHEN HE DIED THEY CONSIDERED HIM LIKE A HERO! And those were mistakes, SERIOUS mistakes. Maybye these things still happen because they, mostly COWARDED & STUPIFIED European Goverments don't realize that and they let it continue. There are policies in the EU that cannot be applied nowadays, like the "free frontiers". This policy does not fit in our days, due to the threat that is terrorism. Europe is "dead" because they don't react as much as it was necessary. |
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Phoenix
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That and they're attacking Israel for putting up the security barrier. Now tell me, what's so bad about building a wall to try to keep someone from blowing up your civilian population? Wouldn't that be preferable to targetted assassinations and airstrikes, and tanks? At the same time the EU leadership was blasting Israel for building a wall, the EU was itself proposing to build a wall in Romania to keep unwanted immigrants out. I think someone needs to look up the word hypocrisy sometime in the dictionary.
What I find amazing is the amount of ignorance that exists in regards to just who the "Palestinians" are. Time for a history lesson. There was never an Arab nation called "Palestine". The modern Palestinians are Egyptians and Jordanians. What happened was in 1947 the United Nations adopted a resolution partitioning the area then called Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state. At the time the British actually controlled the territory which was known as Palestine and Transjordan. Back in 1921 the Transjordan portion was closed to any further Jewish settlement, but the area that is modern Israel (called Palestine) remained open. The British mandate for control was actually issued by the League of Nations in 1922. Settlements were left basically to self-governence until Britain withdrew from its commitment under mounting Arab pressure. On November 29, 1947 Britain announced it was terminating the mandate, to take effect May 15, 1948. On May 14, 1948 the Nation of Israel declared its independence. Keep in mind this was in the area West of the Jordan river, the area called Palestine that was partitioned off specifically for the Jews according to UN Resolution 181 which was adopted by the UN General assembly on November 29, 1947.
The problem is the Arabs rejected this resolution, and decided instead to attack Israel in 1948. Many wealthy Arabs left Israel in anticipation of the war, even though Jewish leaders at the time asked them to remain and instead become citizens. Up to and after the May 15th invasion, many Arabs continued to flee as a result of the conflict. By the time the invasion began, over 300,000 Arabs had fled the country, leaving only around 160,000 left in the country. In addition to this, leaders of Arab countries around Israel were actively encouraging Arab Israelis to leave the country so they could annihilate the Jewish population. They attempted to do just that in 1948, and again in 1967 and failed both times.
The problem was that the Arabs who fled were then expecting to just be allowed back into the country as if nothing had happened. Despite that, In 1949, Israel offered to allow families that had been separated during the war to return and even agreed to release refugee accounts frozen in Israeli banks, offered to pay compensation for abandoned lands and, also agreed to repatriate 100,000 refugees -under the condition such people were non-hostile (only an idiot would patriate hostile people). The problem was the Arab nations absolutely refused any offer that required recognition of Israel as a state. They insisted on full repatriation as a precondition for any negotiation, which Israel naturally rejected (to do other would have been suicide considering the recent invasion), so instead the Arabs were confined to refugee camps by the Arab nations who controlled those areas at the time. After the 1948 war, Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip and also the 200,000 Arab refugees there, but refused to allow them into Egypt or out of the Gaza area at all. Syria also refused to allow any Arab refugees into its lands, despite having ample room for them. Jordan did allow some refugees into the country and controlled the West Bank in 1950, but they lost the West Bank during the 1967 war which they started in the first place.
Israel is constantly asked to repatriate a hostile population as a condition for any peace negotiation. Yet, at the same time, no Arab nation will offer to take the refugees in despite having plenty of room. There's a reason for this. The refugees are too convenient a tool for hostile regimes to use against a Jewish state they could not beat militarily. Israel is a true Democracy, not a Republic like the US. This means if a large Arab population were suddenly brought into the normal population, all they would need is a simple 51% majority over the Jewish population and Israel would no longer be a nation. The entire Palestinian situation is being perpetuated because the Arabs see the Palestinian refugees as too valuable a weapon in their war to eliminate the Jewish state and seize control of the land. They're kept in poverty and misery by the Arab states who refused to allow them any other option except to be refugees and used as a wedge with which to squeaze Israel.
Now, who in their right mind after two full-scale military invasions would want to negotiate with or capitulate to hostile neighbors who have shown only utter contempt for your various existence? To me it makes sense to build a fence to keep the suicide bombers and other terrorists out, and to take a "zero tolerence" stance toward terrorism. Having busses and night clubs blown up on a daily basis tends to get tiring after a while, and I have to commend the Jewish people for not going completely postal and just declaring war on Arabia as a whole. The problem is that as long as people in the world keep funneling money, like the 2 Billion or so pledged by the G8 courtesy of Bono and his stupid Live 8 concert, to the so-called Palestinians you're going to keep seeing groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Al Qaida keep getting taxpayer subsidizing, while the people who actually live in Palestine remain in abject poverty because of people like Arafat and Abbas who will never let them see one penny of it. Think about foreign aid for a moment, and how effective it is. All that money that's been sent to Africa over the last two decades - a few hundred billion dollars - how much good has it done? Aren't the poor still poor, or they wouldn't be holding poverty awareness events? Aren't the governments are still corrupt, and the starving still starving? Throwing another $50 billion at it won't solve the problem. The problem is corrupt regimes and leaders controlling the cash flow. You won't solve the problem until the people are taught how to be self-sufficient and are properly educated, and the corrupt regimes removed.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe blowing up every country in the world is going to root out terrorism or solve poverty, but I do believe people need to stop acting like offending Muslims is the worst sin you can possibly commit. Here's some food for thought - if it's only a small number of radicals causing the problem, those who are twisting Islam as has been claimed, then where are the Mullahs, the Clerics, and the Muftis? Why don't Muslims condemn terrorism and actually do something about it to get rid of it? As long as the Arab governments and the Muslim religious leaders keep silent and wring their hands of what people are doing in the name of Allah, they do not deserve any kindness as far as I'm concerned. Either they are complicit, or they're cowards. Either way they're not helping, and remaining silent when you're supposed to be a leader means it's defacto condonement. I don't think people should go blow up mosques by any means, but I do think it's time people get their heads out of the sand and stop being afraid of offending people over a very serious danger, especially in Europe since there is a very large Muslim population, and it's growing day by day. You know the terrorists are going to blend into that population and hide there. I think if anyone should be offended by Islamic extremist-brand terrorism it's the Muslims since they're the ones getting the bad name over it. They are the ones who need to stand up and kick the terrorists out. If they want the world's respect, well, time to earn it and stop sitting on their hands over this. I know I sure as hell took offense at all the pedophile priests who got busted. I'm glad they got busted. I'd help fan the flames with my own wings when they burn for it if given the chance.
Edit: And already the Independent has come out with a story about one of the bombers, and how "he just wasn't the type" or how the parents "can't believe he could have done this" and all the usual bleeding-heart nonsense. I'm sure you'll see articles about his childhood hardships and how he felt "compelled to do this" because his football dreams were smashed, or some other rubish. It's completely irrelevent. I can tell you why he did it, someone told him he should do it and he believed them. Whoever convinced him to blow up a bus and gave him the explosives needs to be hunted down, interrogated, and killed, plain and simple.
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« Last Edit: 2005-07-14, 19:08 by Phoenix »
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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shambler
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Whoever convinced him to blow up a bus and gave him the explosives needs to be hunted down, interrogated, and killed, plain and simple. Yes, and soon. |
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Lopson
Elite
Posts: 1133
Still Going In Circles
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That wall thing was another thing that had a stupid reaction in the International Community. They don't realize that Israel made this wall in order to avoid conflict & to defend their country. They can't realize that being in a war for 60 years is very tiring and they have to come up with something in order to calm things up. In fact, there hasn't been an attack in weeks/months (am I wrong?). The wall idea is an idea that is resulting.
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« Last Edit: 2005-07-15, 10:56 by [KruzadeR] »
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Lopson
Elite
Posts: 1133
Still Going In Circles
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If Israel pulls out and walls off the Gaza strip, then the terrorists lose a lot of their leverage. Now that would be a very strong act that I think they might do with time. But with the Gaza Strip walled up, the terrorists would go insane, not to mention the International community, but hell, SCREW THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. |
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shambler
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Stop Press: Got him...... The 'mastermind' bomber was arrested today in Egypt. He was studying for 5 years at Leeds University, chemistry of all things! He fled Leeds, my city, where 3 of the bombers lived and left his house etc. This was about 10 days ago. 3 pakistanies have been arrested in pakistan in connection with the bombings in london. Don't know any more details on that yet. My GF who removes toenails and dresses them etc for a living was in the healthcenter 90 yards from one of the houses that was raided. she was working there while these basterds would be planning to murder people. She was evacuated and not been allowed back to the biulding until today. We've been together 17 years, next month. I could have lost her. Shes a bit of a Goth but a fantastic banjo and mandolin player. The love of my life. If I'd have lost her I would not have been responcible for my actions. But people would have died. http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/article.aspx?as=a...ae=windows-1252 |
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« Last Edit: 2005-07-15, 19:54 by shambler »
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Woodsman
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They could stick his head on london bridge to keep willain wallace company...oh wait london bridge is in arizona now.
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shambler
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They could stick his head on london bridge to keep willain wallace company...oh wait london bridge is in arizona now. If I come across the heads I'll post them to you woods. Then you could drop them off. The heads on pikes is the best punishment - justice must be seen to be done, not just done. |
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shambler
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Local news from England:
We have had another set of bombers, doing exactly the same as the last bunch of Idiots. This time thier bombs failed to go off, and they ran away. 3 on the underground, one on a bus.
One man was seen running away with wires coming out of a hole in the back of his shirt!
this has to be a suicide bomber.
At the moment news seems to say we have 2 of them, but I think this will prove to be wrong. The men arrested didn't seem to be bombers to me. Remember I was at thier school today for a meeting! I sat in the woodwork room - the very same they had worked in - and attended a meeting.
THis country is far to soft IMO.
(The welsh should be in charge.)
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shambler
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My boss is the man who taught them electronics at school! That explains why the bombs were duds. Joking aside, I agree, its copycat stuff.
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