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Author Topic: Can't believe IGN.  (Read 11964 times)
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Phoenix
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« Reply #20 on: 2008-01-20, 22:46 »

I thought you just meant the game hitched and stuttered, I did not realize it was a full blown crash.  Dr. Jones has been having a similar problem with Team Fortress 2.  The only consistency I can see between this is you both have ATI video hardware.  I don't know if perhaps it's the ATI drivers, hardware, or if it's entirely coincidental, but the problem sounds very similar.  I don't want to be too quick in blaming the video hardware or drivers as I know there's plenty of people playing Doom 3 and Q4 fine on ATI hardware.  With that setup you should be able to run both games quite well.  Maybe check into your memory timings or else there's some background program causing the problem?  You might want to look at your boot processes.  Sometimes a memory resident antivirus or security program can cause games to fold like that.

The biggest problem I had with Q4 was with r_smp 1 it liked to freeze on certain cinematics.  It was a well known issue and never got patched, which I find kind of irritating.  Doom 3 occasionally froze on me, but only a few times that I can remember.  Otherwise both games were extremely stable for me.
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fourier
 
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« Reply #21 on: 2008-01-21, 08:07 »

I've tried:
Clean install
Lax memory timings
Several official ATI drivers and Omega drivers
Many, many tweaks to the game itself.

I consider myself an expert in computers, both hardware and software functionality.  I don't use any anti-virus.  I have a hardware firewall and heavily tweaked xp and 2k installations.  I don't have any simple viruses or more difficult to remove viruses (the one's the anti-viruses can't even detect such as well designed kernel hooks).

I considered the possibility that one of my "tweaks" could be preventing the game from running properly and did a clean XP SP2 install on another partition.  This resulted in the same situation.  From there, I retried all the things I tried on my tweaked installs with the same conclusion.  So I resolved that there must be some hardware incompatibility -- the combination of my hardware + Doom 3 = crash.

I believe I used r_smp 1 without any problems in Q4 other than the freeze then recover which was present in both smp enabled and disabled.  Doom 3 with r_smp had big issues I believe, but I thought they did address it in the last patch.  I could be thinking of Q4 though.

It's not a big deal, and I feel Tech 4 was more stable with Q4.  I don't believe the engine itself was well designed, due to the tweaks almost always needed to be applied out-of-the-box to both D3 and Q4.  Many people have reported crashes and the like, so I don't feel like this is something out of the ordinary.  I know people who have had no problems with it, and I know people who have had the opposite.

I suppose I should borrow ET:QW off someone to test whether it still remains, but as I said it isn't that big a deal.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #22 on: 2008-01-21, 16:01 »

If you've done all that I'd say there's definitely some kind of hardware glitch with the game and I would agree with your assessment.  It could be combination of motherboard, CPU, and video all working together.  I know I've seen some strange hardware behavior.  Just recently one person I know had all sorts of system slowdowns, and was ready to ditch Windows and reinstall (her solution for everything it seems...), blaming unknown, undetected snoopware, etc (also rather paranoid).  I told her to try removing her old modem which had a habit of working loose in the PCI slot.  Voila, system runs better.  I've seen bad network cards cause a system to load the CPU at 100% for several minutes at a time.  I lost a Windows 98 install from a motherboard having a chipset go flaky and deciding that the drive no longer needed a directory structure.  My old 486 system lost a compressed volume when the old hard drive (a Maxtor - first and last one I've owned) decided it did not like the new Connor hard drive that moved in next door.  It tolerated it afterward only if it was the master.  Talk about bigoted hardware...  As complicated as modern computer hardware is, and as buggy as the software is, I'm surprised it doesn't crash more than it already does.  I can only imagine the horror stories from people who repair them for a living.

As for myself, the only problem I have is an annoying but consistent one.  Randomly on any boot one of two things will happen.  Upon launching a game for the first time, I will either succeed or suffer a blue screen with a Stop 0000007F, which is a divide by zero.  If the game launches, I will have no trouble that boot with any other games and I will not have this error.  It only happens the first time, and only with games.  I thought it might be Nvidia's drivers being crabby but driver changes did nothing, and it happens in Zdoom as well, which uses a software renderer, which rules out OpenGL as a cause.  I've also tried removing the overclock from my hardware and it still occurs.  I've stress tested the system with Orthos for 9 hours at a go, plus memtest for about 12 passes and it's rock solid stable other than this one problem.  I'm guessing it's either a video buffer overflow when it's trying to hand off video modes, or else some problem with the sound, but who knows.  As for my experience with computers...  I predate them.  I don't consider myself an expert, though I've touched about everything from an old Texas Instruments up to what I'm on now.  I'm certain both of these problems have a cause and some solution, just probably not one that's readily acceptable or accessible to either of us.
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fourier
 
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« Reply #23 on: 2008-01-22, 16:00 »

That is a very interesting problem.  Even the software renderer causes this?  Have you tried another OS?  If I remember correctly, 2kpro (my preferred OS) doesn't the part of the OS that deals with video and audio whereas XP does.  As I'm sure you know since you have to deal with the error on your computer, the 0x0000007F doesn't necessarily mean divide by zero, but I'm assuming you want me to infer that the first param is null.

You mentioned testing with memtest86, so I'll bring up something.  I've had two cases of a bad stick of memory.  One was my uncle's and memtest quickly exposed that.  The other was one of mine I had a few years ago.  I was having problems with the system it was in, and did my basic testing including memtest.  It ran 24 hours without an error.  As I continued to eliminate possibilities, I eventually got down to the memory.  I tried using one stick, and got the error immediately.  Then switch to the other stick of the pair, and the error wouldn't manifest.  Do I know what was physically wrong?  No, but after I discovered that it would run on the other stick, I tested each stick in all the dimm slots.  This still came out as the one stick causing the crash, and the other not.  The sticks are a pair and "identical", but obviously one of them was different than the other in that it did not function properly.  So memtest couldn't find this problem.

If it is a divide by zero, then I believe the majority rules that it is due to memory corruption at some level.

I stated I was an expert to avoid the possibility of irritating scoldings I find to be attracted frequently to statements like "I don't use an anti-virus".  I consider myself an expert in that I have extensive knowledge and experience in the field of "fixing" computers.  This is often software related, but as you mentioned can be the old lose cable/card, bent transistor, hardware failures, etc.  I am not an expert in microchip engineering; so when it gets to the point that hardware is not functioning properly, with no naked-eye-visible problems -- such as in the case of that stick of ram, I hit the limit of my knowledge and capabilities.

I was going to make a sort of intellectual joke regarding the last sentence of your post, but I figured I'd just say I concur, lol.  The only reason I thought of doing this was because someone mentioned it recently in a discussion I was having about relative and absolute truth and logic.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #24 on: 2008-01-22, 17:06 »

The full stop error is Stop 0000007F 0x00000000 0x00000000 0x0000000 0x0000000, which is indeed a divide by zero.  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/137539

I do have an alternate Windows 2000 install set up on another hard drive, and I do have paired memory, though dropping one stick would put me at 512 K - not fun, but testable anyway.  Perhaps when I'm feeling adventurous I'll see about nosing into it.  It's Corsair memory so if it fails it's lifetime warranty.  If it proves to be OS-specific, then I'll have to live with it I suppose.  Then again, I've been wanting more RAM in this system so perhaps I might look into trying to find a deal on a 2 GB XMS DDR set after I get some more cash available.

Regarding experience level, I understand what you mean there.  It's good to know where someone is knowledge-wise so a common frame of reference for discussion can be established, hence my own posting.
  Slipgate - Thumbs up!

I should also note that we're now way Slipgate - Off Topic
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fourier
 
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« Reply #25 on: 2008-01-22, 21:31 »

Quote
It's good to know where someone is knowledge-wise so a common frame of reference for discussion can be established, hence my own posting.

Precisely!

Quote
I should also note that we're now way Slipgate - Off Topic
Indeed, although the posts that I have made in this thread have all been "Off topic" as far as in response to the OP.  I will say I think Halo is mostly hype and agree with many of the views mentioned in this thread.  I've played one of them a while ago and didn't care at all for it.

In fact, the thing I like least about many console advocates (and I don't mean the classics like Atari, NES, and so on) is that they think that current games and consoles are revolutionizing games.  I might say Wii has done some interesting things, but Halo?  PC gaming itself has always taken a backseat to console gaming as far as user-base and popularity, which go hand in hand.  Halo was just taking things that PC gamers had been enjoying for many years and putting them on the console.  All of a sudden, Halo is the revolutionary miracle for which gamers have been so desperately waiting.

It's the ignorance that gets to me... always is.  I don't know the Halo series too well, but to me it just seems like more of the same.  The only difference is that now, the people who knew nothing about online gaming 5 years ago have the simplicity of a little box that connects them to other players (astounding!) in THE best(!) game.  There are more gamers, more online gamers, and more console online gamers than there ever were before, so it accounts for the large user-base.  Align that with biased reviews/hype such as what IGN spews and you have a perfect recipe for financial success.

For me, the last real classic system was probably the SNES, with a few exceptions on the N64 and PS.  I like a couple games on the PS2, but they are new breed.  How many games are released today that have the simplicity and addiction factor of classics like Galaga and Centipede?  Maybe it's because I don't play consoles really at all anymore that I don't see classics like this, but to me it seems like games today are far more focused on a once through type system.  Half-life 2 was good and made me want to play the first one just to know more about the story, but I played it once along with HL2 Ep1 (got them together) and once again when Ep2 came out.  After that, I can't just keep playing, even at a rate of once a month.

Or perhaps I'm aging and wont to the "classics" -- as defined by me.

In the end though, I don't like halo.  It's slow, cumbersome, and not like quake, hehe.  In that there is no maybe: I am definitely accustomed to quake and prefer it's style of play for first person shooters.  That ruins me and biases me toward other things.  Although, I should mention I did play through the first Splinter Cell and enjoyed it, yet when I tried to play through it again just recently, I just couldn't find the interest to bare it.

Maybe that will set this back on topic.
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Rubilacxe
 
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« Reply #26 on: 2008-01-24, 23:39 »

Heres how I see it.  Doom and Quake to us PC Fanatics are the Goldeneye and Halo for Console-Only Gamers.  The problem for me is that Doom and Quake came first.

(I'm not bashing Goldeneye here.  I actually love that game.  I find it more innovative than Halo ever will be.  And thats hilarious, because despite how badass Goldeneye truly is, it was merely intended to be a run-of-the-mill movie/videogame marketing tie in.  Look how far its gone.  Theres a gigantic controversy surrounding the rights between Nintendo and Microsoft/Rare to re-release the game.  But I digress.)

But it all comes down to personal experience.  Some didn't have a computer when Doom exploded onto the scene, and even if they did by 1996, they may not have had the hardware to run Quake.  So their first experiences with First Person Shooters happened to be taking control of James Bond.  Theres nothing really wrong with that.  Its a great game to introduce newcomers to FPS's in my opinion.

Halo just never offered anything that made me say "HOLY SHIT I NEED TO GET HALO NOW!!!"
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Ravenholme
 

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« Reply #27 on: 2008-02-03, 03:51 »

i beated halo 3 in normal. then in heroic. and i can tell you that its just an average FPS. In fact, i thing that it deserves a 6/10 because:

BAD:

*its not innovative, forge thingie came since MARATHON (like 1999)
*its short (like 4 days, 3 hours per day to complete it 2 times),
*its a PAIN IN THE ASS some times (Rampant its NOT FUN, NOT EVEN CLOSE),
*the AI of the marines is horrible (dont let them drive anything, JUST DONT, they crash w/ trees , the tanks kill *you everytime cuz the damn driver doesnt move by no reason and stuff like that.
*The alien weapons look like mattel toys (cmon they are actually PINK, PURPLE AND LIGHT GREEN, just put a *barbie logo and you have a barbie girl's hair dryer), The game difficulty curve its horrendous (the beginning its *hard, the mid is average, before the end its a nightmare and the ending plays itself.). The final boss cant be a *final boss...its a damn floating ball that fires you a single beam that even a guy in a wheelchair can dodge. *Besides the stolen character "Sarge" (from Predator) gives you a BFG thingie that kill it in 3 strikes. OMG THAT WAS SO DAMN HARD.
*You spect that doomgu...master chief at least show his face...but no, bungie just left a fanboy message.
*You will die a lot because the explosions came from the really NOWHERE, and the snipers that kill ya w/ one shot.
*The headcra...i mean the Flood its another pain in the ass, in Rampant they troops are INFINITE, specially the things that fire needles.
*Some weapons are SO overpowered like the hammer and the alien sword (one hit KO)
*The graphics are not the big thing, i think that bioshock has better graphics.
*The stuff w/ Cortana is absurd. The Chief fell in love w/ an AI? hell thats weirdo...
*The stolen stuff is amazing: Invisibility like Predator, The Sarge of Predator, Master Chief is Doomguy cmon, the flood are headcrabs for god sake.

GOOD:

*Multiplayer its actually fun
*Drive the Scorpion its fun, cuz U kill stuff so easy, and the explosion are well made
*The vehicles are ok, good number w/ Motorcicles, Jeeps, Planes and stuff
*The grenade variety its fine: Frag, Energy, Sticky and Napalm
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Sucutrule
 

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« Reply #28 on: 2008-02-03, 20:21 »

As my Friend here (That managed to track me down ??) said, Halo is just average. What makes me go like this  Banging Head against Wall is the fact that "important" websites as IGN say it's like the sh*t.

And, again, Map-making (yeah, map-making, because "Forge mode" sounds just SOOO lame) is not new. Even if you're a console-only player, that's not new, just stolen (like most [if not all] Halo). The game is something so clich?d that Fanboys that say "m45t4h ch|3|= 15 l13k teh r0c|<z0rz" (Translation: "Master Chief is, like, the best thing ever")

People keep saying that the multiplayer excuses Halo and that, is one of the best there is. But if the multiplayer excuses the game, then it shouldn't have a Campaign mode.

As the big Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw fetishist I am, I will say "Microsoft was probably, paying someone to stand behind them (the reviewers) jamming needles full of dopamine every half-hour".
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bengreenwood
 

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« Reply #29 on: 2008-02-11, 02:35 »

I played Halo 3 multiplayer on my friend's 360 for a month or so around Christmas, but ultimately I just got bored of using the controller, which is such a piece of crap compared to the good old mouse/ keyboard. Ultimately the game's ok, but really, it's just Quake but much slower and with different graphics. And because it's so slow, whoever gets the first shot in wins, basically. Kind of boring compared to having a room full of people in Quake all blasting away at each other for ages with rocket launchers.

As far as I'm concerned there's been a serious lack of innovation in FPS games since Quake, really. As far as I'm concerned Action Quake 2 is probably the only really innovative deathmatch game since then. That said it doesn't really matter if the game itself is cool e.g. Quake 2, or Generations.

As for Half-Life 2, well I liked the graphics, but the lack of variety sucked, especially compared to HL 1. From what I recall, 60 to 70 percent of the enemies in the entire game were all the same type- grunts. The levels, too, got really repetitive. Yet surprise, surprise, people called it "The best game ever" anyway.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #30 on: 2008-02-11, 15:34 »

Half-Life 2 by itself does seem lacking in the variety department.  My biggest gripes were lack of "fun" weapons, low ammo capacities, bad grenade physics (I hate not being able to time my throws) and lack of interesting enemies, plus the airboat sequence was too long, or at least, too long without the gun and too short once you got it.  I understand the usefulness of the gravity gun, but it seemed like it was relied on TOO much.  I missed the Tau cannon, and things like laser trip mines and satchel charges.  And snarks!  And the Gluon Gun!  The Xen monsters were overall just more interesting.  I think Black Mesa was, too.  The highlight of the game, to me, was when you got control of the antlions going into Nova Prospekt.  I liked being the one with the endless supply of minions for a change!

The episodes do add more depth to the game.  I'd say without Episode 1 and Episode 2, HL2 is kind of bland.  With the episodes it really fleshes out the game.  I think HL2 NEEDS the episodes to really complete it.  It may seem strange to a lot of people, but episodic play is NOT new.  Remember Wolfenstein 3d?  How about Doom?  Those were episodic in nature, just not incremental in their release or engine updates and changes.

I will never agree that HL2 is "the best game ever".  Everyone has a different opinion of what that is, and the fanboys will always argue about it so why bother?
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