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Author Topic: Return to the Cistern  (Read 27023 times)
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Tabun
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« on: 2009-09-10, 19:31 »

Edit 2009-10-28:
Final version: tabq1dm5.zip

New mapping project started.

Thomas Mink wrote:
Quote
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Main Entry: cis?tern
Pronunciation: 'sis-t&rn
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin cisterna, from cista box, chest
1 : an artificial reservoir (as an underground tank) for storing liquids and especially water
----------------------------------------------------------

And there are beautiful pictures of old cisterns from over the world to be googled. Obviously, id took the idea and turned it into an otherwordly, dark and nonsensical level. Which is fine.

Here's what I've been playing around with. Scale and layout are pretty much sorted out. It's a bit larger than the original, which makes sense, but still a bit slipgatishly claustrophobic.

tabq1dm5_pre01.jpg

I'm fairly happy with the brick/wood textures and overal theme. It's a bit warmer than the original due to the more reddish tone of the tiling, and I think I'll keep it that way. I must remember to play around with slightly orange lighting (from torches, if I can get those to look nice enough).

If anyone has pictures of particularly cool medieval-looking brick architecture, let me know! I've got some ideas for a catacomb-like lower/underwater area, but I'm still puzzled about getting an nice look to basic rooms.
« Last Edit: 2009-10-28, 17:12 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #1 on: 2009-09-11, 01:00 »

Looks quite a lot better than mine already, which is quite expected. Mine is flat and boring to look at. I tried to think of a way to break up the flat texturing a bit, and came up with nothing.

I love how you also kept the overall yellow brick look that the original had. Looking forward to this. Slipgate - Thumbs up!
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« Reply #2 on: 2009-09-11, 01:09 »

Here's a few links I found:

Small pics, but various
Catacombs in Paris
More from Paris
Rome
More from Rome
San Fransisco Convent catacombs in Peru
Tutbury Castle dungeon
Warwick Castle dungeon
Chillun Castle dungeon
Leap Castle in Ireland

Hope that helps.
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Tabun
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« Reply #3 on: 2009-09-11, 04:11 »

Thanks! A bit too many pictures with rocky interiors. I think I want to stick to a more modern brickwork-type look. "Medieval architecture" actually works rather well in search engines.. :]
Still in doubt whether I should throw in metallic textures/beams like in the original, or maybe stick to wood.

Teleporter shader looks to my liking now. Still working on the sky -- this map really begs for a cool deck of shifting purple clouds.

Once I get some experiments with the lighting underway, I'll make some more screenies.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Tabun
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« Reply #4 on: 2009-09-12, 01:13 »

Sigh. Wasted hours trying to find good textures, models and pictures online. Hardly any results. So I did what I should have done immediately, anyway: made some of it myself.

I don't know if you (or any other mapper reading this) still need a good torch, but here's something that should do any Slipgate map justice:



Download: q3mapobject_tab_torch.zip

You'll need to add a fire brush (I just use id's fire sprite in the fx shaders) and a light source, this is just a "dead" torch by default. I scale it to 0.5x, because it's rather large, too.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #5 on: 2009-09-12, 03:54 »

The fire sprite looks clipped on the right side in the screenshot, though I realize that's not part of the model itself.  The torch itself looks very good, as does the wall texturing there.  Slipgate - Thumbs up!
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Tabun
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« Reply #6 on: 2009-09-12, 13:36 »

Yeah, sprites never look good from every side. It's actually a V, and you're seeing only the left part of it. I might try crossing two sprites like id does, but that looks bad in other ways. Slipgate - Sad
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #7 on: 2009-09-12, 16:44 »

That is indeed a very nice torch and texture.
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Tabun
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« Reply #8 on: 2009-09-12, 20:50 »

Thanks!
Id's double intersecting sprite solution works better, so I've replaced my "V's".

Some screenies:
tabq1dm5_pre02.jpg

Still didn't get to actually working out the right kind of lighting, but this gives a very rough idea (should be much less dark eventually). I've also decided to replace much of the original cistern's metal to wooden structures (not that there is many, but still) -- it just fits better.

I'm quite unhappy with the greenish bricks in the ceiling cage, so I'll have to think of a way to improve that. I'm happy with the sky, though..
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Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #9 on: 2009-09-13, 00:03 »

That's quite amazing, especially what was done with the ceiling.

The torches look great as well. Wish I had need of them, but I abandoned even trying torches almost from the start. I went with the wall lamps instead, even though I'm not really happy with the black bit that they leave on the wall when you provide them with a light.
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« Reply #10 on: 2009-09-13, 00:43 »

Black bit? When using surface lights or light entities? I find that nasty shadows usually disappear with enough radiosity bounces.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #11 on: 2009-09-13, 06:07 »

Um... wow.  I never thought I'd see a Quake map look like this.  That's pretty freaking amazing.  Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
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« Reply #12 on: 2009-09-13, 08:36 »

As a random side note, seeing you make progress on your version of the cistern has inspired me to no end with work on mine. I honestly can't say why that is.. but I do know that I spent like 5 hours or so tweaking my map. The walkways and stairs got graphical tweaks, I got the lights somewhat figured out, and I even started on an idea to make my walls less flat and bland in some places. All I need now is an idea for the underwater area, which I was never really pleased with in its current state.
« Last Edit: 2009-09-13, 08:43 by Thomas Mink » Logged

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Tabun
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« Reply #13 on: 2009-09-13, 13:10 »

*Tabun humbly bows*

Let's see some screenshots then, Mink -- Screenshots are always good.
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« Reply #14 on: 2009-09-13, 21:59 »

I've been reluctant to post any screenshots because of the rate I've been tweaking. Nothing is set in stone yet, and anything has a possibility of changing.

Water exit
Long hall
Teleport room
Pillar room
Basic design
Tab's button
MH/RL room
Main underwater area
Pool

The water exit is dark, but the lighting in the area isn't done yet.. so it should end up brighter. The long hall, I wanted to break up the flat texturing a bit.. but I'm still scared that the method used might still be too repetative. The pillars were originally pipes, but after abandoning the idea I still wanted them round for some odd reason. All of the water areas are far from being completed.. the screenshots are there only to show the laughably crude design, as well as the old pipe setup that was in place at the time it was made.
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« Reply #15 on: 2009-09-14, 00:57 »

I think the only thing really odd that jumps out when looking at those screenshots, is this: it is very true to the original in brushwork, while having a totally different set of textures. It also looks like the map is rather brightly lit -- while the original was (too) dark. Making it brighter seems like a good idea (and I'll do so myself), but maybe some point in between very bright and very dark would look best.
How's the scale? Is the layout working for you at a different size?
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« Reply #16 on: 2009-09-14, 03:19 »

After abandoning the ideas that were just asking too much of myself, reverting back to my DM4 remake's style seemed like the logical choice. So yea.. the brushwork is quite faithful to how it was in the original map, with only very minor differences.

The scale is bigger than the original map.. I can't exactly judge by how much, but it's bigger. I'd say the size increase here is roughly what it is when comparing my DM4 to the original there.

The layout works quite well.. but it's kind of hit and miss. Then again, it was kind of hit and miss in the original as well. You can see in the screenshots where I made some changes to it (red armor instead of yellow.. SG where the nailgun would be in the original.. some 5 health packs in a corner of the pillar area.. armor shards under water). I'll probably change some of the bullet spawns to plasma.. because right now there's only one plasma spawn, as per the original map only having one big nail box.

Armor on this map is very sparse.. and always was. It just feels odd to me.
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« Reply #17 on: 2009-09-14, 11:38 »

Yeah, the layout seems to be a bit too gimmicky to actually work. I was thinking on adding some armor to the water area, making it more attractive to go to and more part of the map. It's a very risky thing to jump into the water (for more than one reason) and in 1on1 tourney it would be positively suicidal. :]
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #18 on: 2009-09-15, 01:06 »

Another update, but it's going slow now. Fullbright screenshots this time, I'll really put off lighting until I have the better part of the brushwork and theme worked out.

http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/tabq1dm5_pre06.jpg

I think I've got some neat ideas for the lower area now. Color theme will probably work, but I hope I can pull off a sort of vaulted ceiling -- and without making the map too heavy on polygons..
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #19 on: 2009-09-16, 01:59 »

Oh boy. I just worked all day to get the basic shape of the lower area right. A whole day that I should have spent studying. I'll regret that when I'll be trying to make up for it tomorrow.. But still, not unhappy with it:

http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/tabq1dm5_pre07.jpg

Some notes:

Lighting is just a few random lights thrown in -- I'll have to think of a good way to light this so it a) both fits in better with the upper area (lighting in the upper area I will make much less orange, I think, though) and b) shows off the ceiling better.

No worries about the ugly bits and the placeholder stuff, I know about pretty much all that is wrong with this room, still. I also plan to do a lot of work on the diffently coloured section of the roof - should fit in better in the end.

Kinda worried about what the r_speeds will amount to eventually. Right now it just hits the 7k mark at the highest. Should be ok if I max it out at 10k, I think.
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