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Thomas Mink
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Wolf3D is where I got my idea for the 'treasure' type powerups. If you've played Wolf3D, there's quite a lot of rooms that are filled with Nazi trasure... treasure chests, crosses, chalices, and crowns.
As for the style of Earth's items... I recall the Generations story. BJ lived up to the start of the Doom Wars due to a toxin or something that slowed his aging considerably. I'm not entirely sure as to how the generation got titled 'Earth', but I'll venture a guess.
All the other generations have something more to them... Hellspawn, Alien monsters from other dimensions, and human/technology halfbreeds. 'Earth' was all human... human vs human (with the occasional zombie). Right here on Earth.. no other outside world was involved in the take-over attempt.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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I'm completely in agreement on the Wolf3D nostalgia effect concerning the treasure items. Hell, when the sounds would get adjusted to match the old *boooing*-*tingdinglingdidinggg* type stuff I'd be rolling over the floor in my own nostalgia.. ehr.. well something like that anyway. (ed. take it easy, gramps)
I'm less enthusiast about the WWII theme. I know that is what our fella and the whole Generation is coming from, not arguing that. It's just the saturation of the market, WWII wise, at the moment. Look around in any game store or site and it seems you can't even count the amount of WWII setting games on your hands and feet combined. MP40's everywhere, soldiers shouting Scheisse! as if the Germans had made it part of their combat training. It's just getting old. The less our stuff is like the rest out there, the better. That is also why I'm so fond of our mortar, flamer, sniper and gat designs. They're not typical. They still fit the theme, but you don't get stuff looking like that on PlanetWorldWarIIGame.com :]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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scalliano
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Yup, that's me
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On the Gen/Quad issue ...
*straps on blue titanium armor*
how about styling it to fit each class, but keeping the "G" theme throughout?
*ducks*
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PSN ID: scalliano
The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
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Gnam
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I'm glad you mentioned the sounds Tab, cause that's something I was thinking about the other day... Picking up medkits and health vials from Doom just isn't the same without the special sound effect. Also, it might be cool to have different sound effects for teleporters; like Load of Useless Bloody Loonies just doesn't quite feel like Phobos when you step through a teleporter and it doesn't go "weeeeoooooosh!". I don't know whether you would make it set individually for the teleporter on a per-map basis (which would be more appropriate, but more complicated) or just make different teleport sounds for each class, but it would be cool either way.
Anyway, the different colored glows for the Wolf treasure is a good idea. For Doom's haste, maybe it should be an 'adrenaline pack" and use a medkit with a yellow logo...we're running out of colors to stick on spheres.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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- /me uses the stick of forceful aneurysms +10 and strikes everyone firmly. Step away from the Quad.
- Doom's haste will be an orb. Also, I do not see why we deviate from the topic so. This is about Earth's powerups.. Sure, Slipgate's runes could use some brainstormage, but like I said: Doom & Strogg's stuff is pretty much covered.
- My bad for bringing the sounds up, but here's the scope: Class based sounds for just about anything feasible will probably be added later. The main problem here, apart from it needing code, is that we do not have a skilled sound engineer. I've gone out of my way to acquire skill in modelling, since skinning didn't cut it for Gen, but I'm afraid this one is out of my reach ;]
Patience and word of mouth should help us here..
Focus people! :]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Thomas Mink
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 Making sounds is perhaps the only thing to catch my interest as far as the modding community goes. I firmly believe that the way something sounds is almost as important as the way something looks. And besides... I SERIOUSLY miss the weapon/ammo pickup sounds from q1.  Coding.. no. Modelling.. nah. Skinning.. huh uh. Point me in the direction of a good program to make sounds with and I'll try and learn it. As for how long it'll hold my interest.. that's a different story. (You know about my mapping right? I have a map still being worked on..and I started it about 2 years ago). |
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Well, sound editing has lots of aspects. Doing voices obviously requires voice actors, while basic FX editing is perhaps the oddest job I've ever known. It's all about knowing how to create desired effects, using whatever you can get your hands on. The metal sheet wobble to imitate thunder, broken glass and gravel for footstep effects spring to mind. Ofcourse, you'll need a 'studio' to properly record sounds. A soundproof room and proper recording tools at your service are a prerequisite to get acceptable sounds, as far as I know. But that's not all, ofcourse. After recording sounds, you will need to edit them. A simple sound editing tool that I use is CoolEdit Pro (2), which allows the basic stuff (amplitude envelopes, sample conversion, echo effects), and that's not too expensive. Again, you have to sort of know what you're doing here, and when you do, you probably know a lot more about it than I'll ever do. I'll never understand how one just goes and finds out that recording a staplegun used on a set of binders wrapped in tin foil can, with the proper pitch, imitate the gunfire of an exact weapon type, underwater. Or something like that anyway. My bet is keen ears + insanity. |
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« Last Edit: 2004-04-28, 16:03 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
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Elite
Posts: 1011
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Friend of mine does sounds and music, I'll see if I can get ahold of him next I'm in madison. I don't know about teleporters, but the rest of the stuff I think we can do, I'll just have to whip up an original sound library so we have something to work from.
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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Phoenix
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I think we discussed this a while back, the Strogg flight can make use of the bird logo found on the Strogg flags in Q2. It's already got wings, so that's a no brainer.
As for the Gen quads, right now we have a universal Q3-ish Gen quad logo. We cannot use the original Q1 and Q2 logos due to copyright and trademark concerns (yes, they are actually registered trademarks of Id Software, Inc, not just intellectual property) what we can do is make Q1-ish and Q2-ish versions of the Generations logo. We can make that into anything we want since that is our logo, after all.
As for the Earth powerups, I'm all for the treasure globe idea. We already started on this theme with the megahealth being patterened after the 1UP from Wolf3D. It's always good to stick to the roots on this, and we patterened the health after the medkits and food platters from Wolf, so it only makes sense. Here's my take on a few of them.
Quad Damage - Generations G in sphere with Earth quad shader effect
Alternate Quad - Spear of Destiny
Regeneration - chalice (Grail)
Invisibility - crown (fades in and out)
Invulnerability - cross (Holy protection)
Flight - winged staff
Haste - Spear of Destiny? treasure chest?
The flight would be a new item, but I was thinking something along the lines of the Phoenix Rod from Heretic visually. Basically just a golden staff with wings. You get the idea. As for colorizing the items, I don't think colorizing them like Q3 does is completely necessary. We could use glow shells overlaying the gold or else color the gems on the items with the apropriate effect color. I think it would be fairly easy to tell them apart. Those are my suggestions anyway.
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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Personally, I say we leave the Quad the same for all classes for the reasons mentioned above. Adjusting it in style could always be done later, and IMO detracts from the symbolic strength of the model.
I already stated that I would like to minimize any confusion when it comes to powerups, hence the color scheme. It would work if a general theme incorporates said colors, but only if it's easily obvious. Just a bunch of jewels slapped on would only work for me if they were either sizeable or somehow glowing.
Another, somewhat related issue pops to mind. In Quake2, the megahealth glowed slightly, which made it a lot easier to notice than ours is right now. Perhaps that would be a good idea to add in?
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Tekhead
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Didn't all the items in Q2 pulsate lightly? I seem to remember that effect on ammo as well.
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ConfusedUs
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Personally, I say we leave the Quad the same for all classes for the reasons mentioned above. Adjusting it in style could always be done later, and IMO detracts from the symbolic strength of the model. I agree. |
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Thomas Mink
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Regarding the Quad... I'd love to see it done in each Generations' style, but leaving it the way it is is also fine. Leaving it the same is almost like saying it's the one thing that every Generation has in common... yes, they are all unique in their own way... but they are all a part of the arenas eternal regardless.
As for being able to tell the Earth powerups apart, that isn't the problem. It's not too hard to tell a cross from a crown or chalice... but knowing which is which. The color of the gems could help a bit, but I don't think it would be enough unless the gems are extremely easy to see. Hence why I suggested a glowing effect instead.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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I personally wouldn't mind having only powerups and other special items, such as the adrenaline/medikit, glow that way. The other items and weapons probably even look better without it, and don't need to be seen in a quick glance, as one might do when deciding to make a run for the Q2DM1 MH room for instance..
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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scalliano
Elite
Posts: 1095
Yup, that's me
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I'm with Tab on this one.
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PSN ID: scalliano
The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
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UltraMagnus
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Hrm... Doom's Haste as an orb, huh...
If Quad stays the Generations quad, I guess Doom's berserk pack gets wiped out by this mod... since the Doom guy is so brutally fast already, why couldn't you just make his haste a smaller boost in speed and a heavy boost in fist power, in the form of the classic berserk pack? At least then we'd sort-of have our berserk back. I don't know that the balance would be altered too heavily, since Doom would have to get in melee range to see effect out of the damage upper.
-UltraMagnus
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ConfusedUs
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The berserk is in. It replaces the medikit.
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Phoenix
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Yes, if you've played .99d on any map with a medkit on it normally you'd notice the little evil black health box that's been in there for, oh, several months now. Of course, if you'd have checked our Powerups gallery you'd have seen the Berserk Pack and the accompanying Berserk Effect.
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Gnam
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Hey Ultra Magnus try starting a bot match in Q3dm13 as Doom class. You can find the beserk pack next to the grenade launcher spawn, and since the map is pretty tight you can go on fist killing sprees pretty easily. It's fun.
Replacing both the medkit and the quad with the berserk pack is an interesting idea ( I've thought of it myself before), but I don't know how well it would work. I think it might turn Doom class into a "quad rabbit" because you could use a rocket or something to get him before he can get close, and snag an easy quad. It might be possible after some balancing tweaks and planing, but I think as it is now it would just ruin the consitency between classes. Quad is supposed to be the one 'universal' item every class has (even if they didn't have it in their original game).
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