This is a map that I'm working on for pkarena. I really like wolfenstein, brings back memmories of my first pc, a 386sx-16Mb computer, and a friend of mine copied the 4 diskettes for me to try the new "3d-game". I was HOOKED.

Anyways,  I have left  this version with very few weapons as I have gotten the hint :-).  I am not happy with the item placement yet, and  I haven't finished clipping it, but is fully playable and supports bots. I wanted the main fighting to be in the bridges, but it ain't happening, maybe because the rocket launcher is in the back.

It seems to work nicely for us in pkarena, at least with bots, I haven't tried it with my friends yet, but i am not sure in gen, I keep loosing to the darn bots all the time :-(

The pk version will be loaded with weapons and some powerups, I just wanted opinions from you guys, the wolfenstein earth experts hehh.

EDIT 10/21/04 New beta8  replaced previous beta (see below)
wolf's arena beta

That lava is extremely misleading... because it's BLUE!

There seem to be a LOT of large empty space. A health or shard or to would go fine in those places.

I'll look at it in later, when I get the time.

And thanks for limiting your screenshot to 800x600 this time around!

Those instructions weren't up until you posted your 111100000x9999999990 screenshots, lol

Another nice effort, Flu!
I'm just gonna spew all my crits, in the order I ran into them in the map. If you disagree with any or all of them, on basis of the maps theme for instance, just ignore and proceed :]

• Some area's are oddly clipped, for instance the swastica/eagle decor niches in the grey-brick section. At the same time, the columns in the RL room aren't clipped, and hiding behind them is amusing, but odd :]
  
• The RA room is camper heaven. There's hardly a way to flush a player out, unless we're talking tactical grenade-spam or a BFG 10k shot. It is also higher ground, which makes it easier to 'defend'.
  
• Many of the door(frame) textures seem odd to me. For example, the lock mechanism texture (the one with the metallic slot/part in the middle) is used in quite unexpected places.
  
• The lift texture (red brick area) is one of my Doom doors, and though I am ofcourse pleased to see it in use, I find this a weird place to do so - the tech-look doesn't go well with the bricks either, imho.
  
• The area surrounding the white (metallic?) vault textures next to the MH spawn look.. odd. It's not a convincing architectural piece, but it looks out of place as well, to me.
  
• The ghostly electrical Knights (whatever they may be) look pretty neat, but not wolfish in any way, to me.  I'm sure a more Wolf3D style suit of armor is out there, if not - I might be able to make one in the relatively near future.
  
• The 'outside area' is rather bland, and a bit of a style clash. Perhaps some convincing 'seams' or separation of the structures would help here.. Also, the bridges look entirely out of place. The upper walkway seems to be floating mysteriously on thin air  (ie. it looks like a it couldn't take the weight of a bunnyrabbit). The lava looks rather like water (I learnt this the hard way ) - Perhaps if it were to look more like a moat.. ?
  
• The trip to the medikit/LSoV doesn't seem worth it. It looks damned good and moody (I especially like the tree placed in the soil), but there's no real reason to visit the place during a tense game.
  
• The big nazi banners (next to the door to the RA chamber) seem to slide back and forth, instead of flapping in the breeze (in other places, the flags are doing this properly).
  
• I've modelled some pillars that might look better than some of the brush-built pillars - but that is a matter of personal opinion - I have not compared the two, and it's a long time since I made the map-model, so I'll refrain from making bold statements about its quality or apprioriateness - just the suggestion to perhaps give it a look ;]
  
• And one big gripe.. the architecture is overal pretty blocky and bland. There's a few nice touches (such as the doorways or portals, which have nice curves), but the main area's are left with a very monotone use of textures, blocky shapes and sometimes odd transitions. It looks a lot like good old Wolf3D, but I think it would work better if a map would either a) be entirely like a wolf3d map (and thusly very flat indeed) - or - b)  more dynamic and detailed, like RTCW stuff, for instance.
  

I'm sorry there's so many bullets in the above list.. no offense, keep at it and give us more of those 800x600 screenies! :]

Thanks Tabun!  I am pleased to see such a detailed assessment, at least you didn't say  "It sucks, give it up" :=)

Clipping: I'm not sure how most of the players (not generations but ALL players) play, but I'm a wall hugger, there is nothing more annoying to me that try going somewhere hugging a wall and be stopped by some type of pure  detail or decorative structure, that is why iI clipped most of the protruding arches that really mean nothing other than to break the monotony of the long wall.. The columns quite frankly was an oversight, I can clip it if it's annoying, no problem.

The "RA" room is an "RA" room cause I really didn't know what to put in there, I just got the map out with temporary items to malke it playable until you guys help me decide where the stuff belongs, just like the tele room or the beserk room, I know what I'm gonna do in pkarena, but in here I really need help with placement.

Door frames: Uhmmmm  I thought those textures belong there, no?  Does it go with the black in the middle? I wasnt sure, if it does, better, that way I can get rid of extra brushes.

The lift- Wolf didn't have lifts, so I didn't know what would go well, and I really really like yer textures (no arse kissing, I really do :-)  but if you have another suggestion of a texture, lemme know. I thought a jump pad would really be tacky in this map.

The area around the megahealth is already changed for the next beta, I didn't like it either. I do like it in the "outside pillar area" . Wolfenstein had similar columns in most of their levels.

The big nazi banner movement- I gotta check that!  It is the same exact texture and shader as all the other banners, why would it do that?

Pillars, where are your models? I really haven't seen any links- Although they need to be a certain height. But don't pay like a lot of attention to the pillars, you'll hardly notice them during play, and they do look a LOT better than the original woflf's  :-) (more on that later)

The knights- Uhmmm I have googled it to death as well as check out some of the biggest modeling places I have bookmarked and that was the absolutelu ONLY thing resembling a knight, and there are knights galore in wolfenstein maps. I WANT A KNIGHT, please make me one hehh.

The bridges and outside area-  I really don't know what to do to separate the architecture without having assamite telling me I have destroyed the character of the map on this map too :-)  I gotta thihk about it, but it is really a bad thing when I'm left to thinking hehh. The bridges were the FIRST brushes I made and built the map on that concept, I also thought of doing something to them to make them more  "solid" but is kinda hard  without a tech look., gotta think about that one too. (it's on my to do list :-)

The BIG gripe-  Oh boy, this is where we differ a bit- you don't really think is blocky cause I can't curve right? :-)   I made it like that on purpose and I did add a few curves to break the monotony cause it was killing me. I have spent the last three days playing the REAL wolfenstein and I really tried to capture that style, but  given the nice Q3 engine, I thought it was a sin not to have some verticality in the map, a flat map  just  gets old real fast.


Just to understand better where I'm coming from, the real wolfenstein, including the doom wolf levels have not even one brush resembling a curve, is all blocks and blocks, with a very low ceiling (except grosse), they have the same block textures in lots of different colors and many times use 4 or 5 different in one map,  for example you go along the white block corridor and  face the red textures as they border a door entrance, notice that is just like I have it too.

I set out to make a wolfenstein level, I definitely can change it a bit, but making like the new RTWC is just not what I would like, I didn't really like that new game and It would end up being a royal mess of styles, but please keep coming with suggestions and maybe we can all reach a compromise :-)

Are these the pillars you were talking about?, they look damned cool, but I couldnt download,  did not find the link ?
http://www.tabun.nl/3d_art_view.php?view=o...o_tabpillar.txt

Lava:  Would slime look better?

So far, the level looks like it has some potential.

Perhaps if there was an invuln spawn on the lowest platform over the lava and a quad instead of that RA, TDM is a serious option. I like it.

There are a few odd textures like the green marble columns and the doom door for a rising platform, but all-in-all the textures share a consistent theme, which I appreciate. The biggest gripe I have is the lighting, and how it leaves big spots on the floors and celings. Even in wolf3d, there were sprites of celing lamps - if you added some where appropriate (along with perhaps electric runways), the map would look even better.

You will never ever hear me say that -- well, I might state that something sucks, but giving up is never the answer. :]


Not really annoying,  just inconsistant. Take the yellow armor spawn for instance, which is in a spot that you can't reach anywhere else in the map ;] - no biggie I guess.


Frankly, I wouldn't know what could be in there. It looks like it should house something important, but it shouldn't be anything worth camping over.. tough call :]


Textures.
I think there's a door slide side too, but I might have omitted that, back in the day. But any black or dark rail-slide texture would work there. I believe Q3 has plenty of those.
I'm not sure I like the entire platform/lift thing, maybe a staircase instead? /me ducks flailing fists :] -- anyway, I think Q3 has some plat textures, they'd work..
The white/metallic textures do work OK in the LSoV area, indeed.


I have no idea. Only the scale seems to differ..


http://www.tabun.nl/3d_art_view.php?view=o...o_tabpillar.txt
(no download there, I know)


Aren't RTCW mapmodels compatible with Q3? Same engine and all.. I'm pretty sure there were quite decent suits of armor in that game, and perhaps a few more from the community aswell - but then again, I haven't googled it to death myself :]


Some support pillars or girders would help, I think.


Ofcourse I don't think that, I even made mention of your curved portals. In fact, I believe a perfectly detailed & aesthetically pleasing map can be made without any curves whatsoever. A totally new level of detail can even be achieved without affecting the shape of anything, but just dividing walls into sections to allow for more textures (such as a can be see in this picture - this gives the room a way more pleasing look, without affecting 'blocky-structure'  at all).
Perhaps this is really a matter of personal preference, because I don't think keeping a map flat (for a change, because very few are) would make it boring per se. Anyway, you know I'm the closest thing to an 'art director' Wirehead has, so this is more about aesthetics than anything else.


I do know Wolf3D. The thing is, I don't think Apogee/ID would have made the structures like that, if they could do it otherwise. As long as it has the same overall feel as any Wolf3D environtment, it works. If you want to go all the way, which would be fun (again, for a change) too, I'd love to see a map portray a Wolf3D map exactly (including the repetitive use of green ceiling lights, monotonous texture and brush use and an entirely flat map. As long as it wouldn't be too big, that'd be tons of fun.


Can't help you out here, if help is indeed what you need, since we just don't like the same things here, I fear.
There will come a day when a) I have lots of time on my hands and b) no texturing or modelling will have to be done for Generations. When that day comes, I shall (try to)make a few maps to finally shed light on my thoughts ;]


Oops, yes, as I posted above (and I'm too lazy to edit that), they are. I'll see if I can find them again, and get you a download link - if not, just forget I ever brought it up :]


Maybe it's just my Q3 settings, but it already looks like slime (looks kind of greenish here). Dunno what would work best.. perhaps it's just fine as it is ;]

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Edit, perhaps some interesting mapmodels:

http://fps.brainerd.net/mapmodels3.htm - goblin gargoyle (long shot).
http://fps.brainerd.net/mapmodels4.htm - impaled skeleton.
http://fps.brainerd.net/mapmodels5.htm - more skeletons (including the famous cage).

But then again, I assume you've already seen that collection.

Maybe it could be a pirana bath or something to that effect.